My sympathy

[Kydorias]

Good lord. I'm in the middle of fucking Iraq and after I read this I thought to myself, "I'm glad I'm not in his shoes, I'd go crazy."

Written by Ed Stanton (pen name), a Naval Officer aboard the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln.
_____________________________________________
It has been three weeks since my ship, the USS Abraham Lincoln, arrived off the Sumatran coast to aid the hundreds of thousands of victims of the Dec. 26 tsunami that ravaged their coastline. I'd like to say that this has been a rewarding experience for us, but it has not: Instead, it has been a frustrating and needlessly dangerous exercise made even more difficult by the Indonesian government and a traveling circus of so-called aid workers who have invaded our spaces.

What really irritated me was a scene I witnessed in the Lincoln's wardroom a few days ago. I went in for breakfast as I usually do, expecting to see the usual crowd of ship's company officers in khakis and air wing aviators in flight suits, drinking coffee and exchanging rumors about when our ongoing humanitarian mission in Sumatra is going to end.

What I saw instead was a mob of civilians sitting around like they owned the place. They wore various colored vests with logos on the back including Save The Children, World Health Organization and the dreaded baby blue vest of the United Nations. Mixed in with this crowd were a bunch of reporters, cameramen and Indonesian military officers in uniform. They all carried cameras, sunglasses and fanny packs like tourists on their way to Disneyland.

My warship had been transformed into a floating hotel for a bunch of trifling do-gooders overnight.

As I went through the breakfast line, I overheard one of the U.N. strap-hangers, a longhaired guy with a beard, make a sarcastic comment to one of our food servers. He said something along the lines of "Nice china, really makes me feel special," in reference to the fact that we were eating off of paper plates that day. It was all I could do to keep from jerking him off his feet and choking him, because I knew that the reason we were eating off paper plates was to save dishwashing water so that we would have more water to send ashore and save lives. That plus the fact that he had no business being there in the first place.

My attitude towards these unwanted no-loads grew steadily worse that day as I learned more from one of our junior officers who was assigned to escort a group of them. It turns out that they had come to Indonesia to "assess the damage" from the Dec. 26 tsunami.

Well, they could have turned on any TV in the world and seen that the damage was total devastation. When they got to Sumatra with no plan, no logistics support and no five-star hotels to stay in, they threw themselves on the mercy of the U.S. Navy, which, unfortunately, took them in. I guess our senior brass was hoping for some good PR since this was about the time that the U.N. was calling the United States "stingy" with our relief donations.

As a result of having to host these people, our severely over-tasked SH-60 Seahawk helos, which were carrying tons of food and water every day to the most inaccessible places in and around Banda Aceh, are now used in great part to ferry these "relief workers" from place to place every day and bring them back to their guest bedrooms on the Lincoln at night. Despite their avowed dedication to helping the victims, these relief workers will not spend the night in-country, and have made us their guardians by default.

When our wardroom treasurer approached the leader of the relief group and asked him who was paying the mess bill for all the meals they ate, the fellow replied, "We aren't paying, you can try to bill the U.N. if you want to."

In addition to the relief workers, we routinely get tasked with hauling around reporters and various low-level "VIPs," which further wastes valuable helo lift that could be used to carry supplies. We had to dedicate two helos and a C-2 cargo plane for America-hater Dan Rather and his entourage of door holders and briefcase carriers from CBS News. Another camera crew was from MTV. I doubt if we'll get any good PR from them, since the cable channel is banned in Muslim countries. We also had to dedicate a helo and crew to fly around the vice mayor of Phoenix, Ariz., one day. Everyone wants in on the action.

As for the Indonesian officers, while their job is apparently to encourage our leaving as soon as possible, all they seem to do in the meantime is smoke cigarettes. They want our money and our help but they don't want their population to see that Americans are doing far more for them in two weeks than their own government has ever done or will ever do for them.

To add a kick in the face to the USA and the Lincoln, the Indonesian government announced it would not allow us to use their airspace for routine training and flight proficiency operations while we are saving the lives of their people, some of whom are wearing Osama bin Ladin T-shirts as they grab at our food and water. The ship has to steam out into international waters to launch and recover jets, which makes our helos have to fly longer distances and burn more fuel.

What is even worse than trying to help people who totally reject everything we stand for is that our combat readiness has suffered for it.

An aircraft carrier is an instrument of national policy and the big stick she carries is her air wing. An air wing has a set of very demanding skills and they are highly perishable. We train hard every day at sea to conduct actual air strikes, air defense, maritime surveillance, close air support and many other missions - not to mention taking off and landing on a ship at sea.

Our safety regulations state that if a pilot does not get a night carrier landing every seven days, he has to be re-qualified to land on the ship. Today we have pilots who have now been over 25 days without a trap due to being unable to use Indonesian airspace to train. Normally it is when we are at sea that our readiness is at its very peak. Thanks to the Indonesian government, we have to waive our own safety rules just to get our pilots off the deck.

In other words, the longer we stay here helping these people, the more dangerous it gets for us to operate. We have already lost one helicopter, which crashed in Banda Aceh while taking sailors ashore to unload supplies from the C-130s. There were no relief workers on that one.

I'm all for helping the less fortunate, but it is time to give this mission to somebody other than the U.S. Navy. Our ship was supposed to be home on Feb. 3 and now we have no idea how long we will be here. American taxpayers are spending millions per day to keep this ship at sea and getting no training value out of it. As a result, we will come home in a lower state of readiness than when we left due to the lack of flying while supporting the tsunami relief effort.

I hope we get some good PR in the Muslim world out of it. After all, this is Americans saving the lives of Muslims. I have my doubts.

[Cinnabar]

What a joke. Politics blow.

[Armind]

Really disgusting. It's always USA give, USA give, USA give, others take, others take, others take, then bash the US, bash the US, bash the US.

[Kydorias]

I thought this was funny...

A Marine squad was marching north of Basra when they came upon an Iraqi soldier badly injured and unconscious. Nearby but on the opposite side of the road was an American Marine in a similar but less serious state. The Marine was conscious and alert.

As first aid was given to both men, the squad leader anxiously asked the Marine what had happened. The Marine reported, "I was heavily armed and moving north along the highway, and coming south was a heavily armed Iraqi soldier. Seeing each other we both took cover."

"What happened then?" the corpsman asked.

"I yelled to him that 'Saddam Hussein was a rotten low life slug,' and he yelled back, 'John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Bill and Hillary Clinton are miserable slimeballs.' We were standing there shaking hands when a truck hit us."

[Mutt]

I dont understand for what reason the vice mayor of Pheonix needs to be in Indonesia, but what is this guys problem? Hundreds of thousands of people are dead, there are massive food and water shortages and unless basic needs arent met that number will climb ever higher. I can see how all those extraneous people onboard can be imposing but this guy really sounds like its such an incoveniance to provide aid in the face of this disaster. As for costing millions a day? Take it out of that 80 billion for Iraq.

[Armind]

ya, thats how it always is, usa give, give. instead of taking it away from the people in iraq who need it so badly, the money should come from UN funding.

[Drekor]

Really disgusting. It's always USA give, USA give, USA give, others take, others take, others take, then bash the US, bash the US, bash the US.

...ugh, talk about a stereotypical arrogant american :thumbdown

[Armind]

...ugh, talk about a stereotypical arrogant american :thumbdown

...

Talk about a stereotypical ignorant Canadian.

[Mutt]

I didnt mean take it from fund allocated for the Iraqi welfare but Im saying its not like its going to break the pocket book to operate a carrier over there. Maybe its different when you are rebuilding something you didnt blow up in the first place.

[Ven]

...ugh, talk about a stereotypical arrogant american :thumbdown


.... :thumbdown

[Armind]

2-3million a day to operate a carrier, that's hardly chump change.

most of the countries that "pledge" money to these natural disasters usually never meet them. they throw out big numbers at the time of the disaster, but when it comes to actually paying out the money, they fail miserably.

as goes the way of war, infrastructure often gets destroyed, even in this war, where unprecedented measures were taken to reduce the number of civilian casualties and property damage.

[Mutt]

Its not, but how long is a carrier actually going to stay in the region? And how much of that extra cost is coming from aiding tsunami relief efforts. Its not like the carrier is free to operate any other day. Theres what 24 or so US carriers? Is there another pressing matter right now thats more important to handle that one of those others cant take on?

This guy doesnt think much of helping the region and doesnt see why he needs to be there. Thats the attitude that bugs me.

[Gnioss]

sounds to me like he would obviously like to help the people who need it, but he's annoyed by the "helpers" he has onboard that are more of a hindrance to the operation then assistance.

[Mutt]

Yes, but I think thats only adding to his frustration. I dunno, but these comments make me think its not only reason.

I went in for breakfast as I usually do, expecting to see the usual crowd of ship's company officers in khakis and air wing aviators in flight suits, drinking coffee and exchanging rumors about when our ongoing humanitarian mission in Sumatra is going to end.

I'm all for helping the less fortunate, but it is time to give this mission to somebody other than the U.S. Navy. Our ship was supposed to be home on Feb. 3 and now we have no idea how long we will be here.

I hope we get some good PR in the Muslim world out of it. After all, this is Americans saving the lives of Muslims. I have my doubts.

[Gnioss]

If you were stuck on a boat thousand of miles away from your family past the time when you were supposed to go home, would you start to wonder when you got to go home? Tsunami or no tsunami, he's just a man who wants to go home like anyone else.

[Slak]

I dont understand for what reason the vice mayor of Pheonix needs to be in Indonesia, but what is this guys problem? Hundreds of thousands of people are dead, there are massive food and water shortages and unless basic needs arent met that number will climb ever higher. I can see how all those extraneous people onboard can be imposing but this guy really sounds like its such an incoveniance to provide aid in the face of this disaster. As for costing millions a day? Take it out of that 80 billion for Iraq.

You make it sound like a walk in the park. But to throw a cheapshot at a guy whose actually there instead of at home, sipping a bear, playing computer games is just bad.

The guys just a guy, he prolly hasnt seen his family for 6 months, and then will only be there for another 2 weeks before shipping off again. Believe me, my dad was in the navy when i was young never saw much of him besides when he was home. Then the navy wanted to relocate his ship to japan, didnt happen. Got a subcontractor job that payed really good and has a lot less ship leave (although its still there), so he could be at home more.

The war didnt help that much, he at one point was gone for 2 weeks a month and that went on for a bit.

Its a damn tough job to be out at sea, under an aircraft carrier deck, going to bed at the sounds of jetcraft doing testflights, and barely every getting to see your family for 6+ months. So please, stop making it sound like a "nice easy thing to do".

[Rednamalas]

perhaps its just the perception of a soldier....but i saw nothing in there that said he didnt want to help the PEOPLE that were suffering. its the governmentS [<--plural] that the person has a problem with, and the people who are over there to "show that they are helping" yet still need their civilized comforts, and not pay for it.

have any of you been in a third world country before and had to cater to VIP's? unfortunately i have.

you have your job to do, which by itself is stressful enough when some of the locals dont hide the fact that they like and support Osama. now you have to perform extra work to provide for the VIP's comforts. this often takes away from what little comforts the soldier has for the duration of the visit. You also have to listen (if unlucky enough to be a personal guard) to the VIP's bitch about this or that isnt good enough.
[fuck im gettin pissed just remembering this shit]
so now you are being insulted for giving up what little comfort you have and any free time to provide for them....

ever wonder where all the aid is going that is given to those governments in need? again i can say from personal experience that if there is someone around watching, the right people get it. but as soon as the cameras and witnesses leave, those in power will be back to take what they want.

arrogant american....... fucking right i am.

[Kydorias]

Believe me, the average American servicemember deployed in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom, Enduring Freedom, and the Tsunami relief effort is proud of what he/she is doing and recognizes the importance of their work.

The same average servicemember misses their family and friends and can't wait to go home when their time is up or their job is accomplished.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

As for VIP visits, it depends on the purpose of their visit and what they are accomplishing with their visit. Having to deal with the literal boatload of "relief workers" who in fact are inhibiting relief operations more than supporting them would be extremely frustrating. The Navy personnel onboard the USS Abraham Lincoln were sent to do a job, and I don't blame them for being frustrated when useless people interfere with that job.

As far as US support goes, it is irrefutable that the US military possesses the best logistical infrastructure to accomplish such a relief effort. The material and experience gained from many years of supplying the US war machine directly translates to peacetime operations. What annoys many Americans is the fact that very few other countries expend the funds to be able to support such an operation themselves. Thus we end up bearing the load of logistics while all the anti-American naysayers bash us from their recliners at home for being "stingy" and "meddling" and whatever other slurs they can dream up.

[Diraker]

Sorry there's not much sympathy I can have towards a naval officier when there's like 200,00 dead and a region is ruins.

their grief/misery > his inconvinience

And when the US is spending billions upon billions of dollar in Iraq fighting a questionable war, it's no suprise that people don't feel as though America helps enough.

[Kydorias]

Their grief & misery without US help > their grief & misery with US help

I bet lots of Iraqis who exercised their right to vote today would disagree with you about the questionable war thing.

[Diraker]

I may be liberal but I don't neccessarily believe it was a bad thing to go into Iraq. I do however have major issues with the way the administration lied to us about the reasons why we should go to war. If BushCo. would just have been honest, I think they could have made a case for war anyway. Sure they'd still leave out the parts where they still make tons of money and how chaos makes it easy for them to steal, but there is significant threat in the middle east by these anti american governments, Iraq being one of them. Question is do we nation build Iran, Syria, Lebanon, etc too? What about Saudi Arabia? China? North Korea? Is World War 3 approaching? WMDs will be involved, and the US home soil isn't safe....great.

[Kydorias]

In no way do I believe the Bush administration deliberately lied to anyone. We've gone around in circles about this before, but at the time I think most people in the world had no trouble believing the data presented by multiple intelligence agencies. The data that supported evidence that Saddam possessed WMD.

Yes it was ultimately wrong. But regardless, I still think Saddam was a powderkeg waiting to blow and it was beneficial for us in the long run to take him down.

As far as when do we stop, I don't think we have any more designs on invading any more countries, at least in the short term. And after Iraq, I doubt we would even think about it without some serious provocation.

I genuinely believe that the democratization of Iraq will cause a ripple effect throughout the Middle East. Granted it might take a long time, but I think what is happening in Iraq sends a clear signal to those remaining dictatorships and tyrannies that are so common in the Middle East. If the Iraqis can have self-determination, why can't other citizens of Middle Eastern countries?

[Diraker]

As far as when do we stop, I don't think we have any more designs on invading any more countries, at least in the short term. And after Iraq, I doubt we would even think about it without some serious provocation.

I hope you are right Kydorias.

"So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world."

"America, in this young century, proclaims liberty throughout all the world and to all the inhabitants thereof. Renewed in our strength -- tested, but not weary -- we are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom."

Bush, Inaugural Address 2005.

[Mutt]

I didnt mean to make it sounds like its an easy task, and Im sure he at some level he really wants to help. But what good does this pissing and moaning do anyone? Why is he complaining about not being able to conduct air drills? Dont need fighter jets to relieve starving people. Just because he joined the navy doesnt automatically make him good people.

[Slak]

I hope you are right Kydorias.

"So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world."

"America, in this young century, proclaims liberty throughout all the world and to all the inhabitants thereof. Renewed in our strength -- tested, but not weary -- we are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom."

Bush, Inaugural Address 2005.


Ya the inaugural address pissed me off a little bit. Im sorry but the war needs to stop at Iraq. We dont need to fight more countries and we dont need to run ourselves into the ground.

[Gnioss]

I didnt mean to make it sounds like its an easy task, and Im sure he at some level he really wants to help. But what good does this pissing and moaning do anyone? Why is he complaining about not being able to conduct air drills? Dont need fighter jets to relieve starving people. Just because he joined the navy doesnt automatically make him good people.
It takes drills and exersices to keep something as huge as a naval carrier ready to do what it was designed to do. Are you suggesting they should stop training and drills because they happen to be spending every waking moment sending food and supplies to the civilians on the mainland? If I was being prevented from doing my job by people who were there so they could tell thier buddies over a moccha that they were humanitarians, i'd be pissed too.

[Mutt]

No, I agree that would. From what I read training hasnt been stopped, just slowed.

I just dont have much sympathy for him. The people in the region yes. Some naval officer complaining about yuppies, no.

[Armind]

Sorry there's not much sympathy I can have towards a naval officier when there's like 200,00 dead and a region is ruins.

their grief/misery > his inconvinience

And when the US is spending billions upon billions of dollar in Iraq fighting a questionable war, it's no suprise that people don't feel as though America helps enough.

I dont think the guy is looking for sympathy, and anyone who thinks he was misinterpreted the read I think. What he's pointing out is the absurdity of the "relief workers" and their attitudes on his ship.

As for that mayor, I know that if Mayor Bloomberg from NY visited the region, he'd receive media coverage which would translate into more donations. I dont have a problem with someone in public office who's in the position to help others traveling to that devastated region to increase media coverage.

The American government is helping more than any other country in the world. Ontop of the "pledged donations" like the ones France and Germany make (which those countries and others turn into a peeing contest), the US pledges money plus the assistance of the military. Not to mention the hundreds of millions Americans donate in forms of private donations and the lives of dead American soldiers helping out in the region.

Anyone see on CNN the video footage of the soldiers handing out food and medical supplies to the guy wearing the Osama bin Laden t-shirt? Ironic.

[Diraker]

perhaps Armin needs to look at the title of this thread

Personally having a bunch of ungrateful bastards living in my house would piss me off too. And writing a good rant about it helps.

[Mutt]

Aye ranting would help, but ranting like this in public? Kyd how did you get ahold of this?. Yes Bloomberg would get some media attention, but whos going to pay attention to the VICE mayor of pheonix? What dead american soldiers?

Found a site with someone who doesnt hide behind a pen name and it seems to me at least speak with the same kind of attitude and belief in what they are doing like Kydorias or Red.

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2005/01/the_other_side_.html

For Kyd:

Ed is the pseudonym of a Naval Officer aboard the USS Lincoln and wasn't happy with the Tsunami relief efforts - mostly due to the arrogance and attitudes of the UN staffers.

{ ...What really irritated me was a scene I witnessed in the Lincoln’s wardroom a few days ago. I went in for breakfast as I usually do, expecting to see the usual crowd of ship’s company officers in khakis and air wing aviators in flight suits, drinking coffee and exchanging rumors about when our ongoing humanitarian mission in Sumatra is going to end.

What I saw instead was a mob of civilians sitting around like they owned the place. They wore various colored vests with logos on the back including Save The Children, World Health Organization and the dreaded baby blue vest of the United Nations Mixed in with this crowd were a bunch of reporters, cameramen and Indonesian military officers in uniform.

They all carried cameras, sunglasses and fanny packs like tourists on their way to Disneyland. My warship had been transformed into a floating hotel for a bunch of trifling do-gooders overnight... }

I just received an email from a Naval Aviator aboard the Lincoln who disputes Stanton's claims and wants you to hear the other side of the story. Here are the words of Lieutenant Commander Jeff Vorce:

As a Navy helicopter pilot flying humanitarian assistance/disaster relief missions to the island of Sumatra, Indonesia, I was startled and dismayed by the inaccuracies of Ed Stanton's editorial, "No Relief in Sight for the Lincoln." While I can't comment on the actual individual who drafted the article (he chose to hide behind a pen name), his writing is indicative of a disgruntled officer who hasn't actually seen the true scope of the devastation ashore or the work that is being done by his shipmates to help.

The people of Indonesia genuinely appreciate our assistance. There are homemade American flags that the hungry and injured have made and display in the makeshift landing zones where we drop off medical supplies, food, and water to prove it. My heart swells with pride (and I choke up a little) every time I see hundreds of displaced persons cheer, salute, and flash a big smile or a thumbs-up when my crewmen are off-loading boxes marked with red, white, and blue stickers that proclaim, "Food from the American People."

The Indonesian government (rightly so) is in charge of the overall relief effort underway on the western coast of Sumatra. Last time I checked, it is their country. Simply put, we are here to aid them with their recovery. We are merely one part of what could end up as the largest relief effort in history. The resources and personnel of the Abraham Lincoln Carrier Strike Group are working in concert with the people of Indonesia, other nations, militaries, and a host of non-governmental relief agencies including US AID, Red Cross & Red Crescent Society, WHO, UNICEF, Doctors without Borders, and the WFP.

The civilians that have been transported by our helicopters and have been hosted aboard the carrier are not a "traveling circus" of aid workers or "trifling do-gooders." On the contrary, these are professionals who have years of experience in mitigating human suffering and tragedy. While there are many highly trained men and women deployed alongside me, there are few (if any) who have expertise in the prediction of malaria transmission vectors, the proper disposal of tens of thousands of human remains, creating a system to match orphaned children with distant relatives, reviving an entire economy, prioritizing bridges or roads to be re-built, or any of the other skills sets that are so critical to disaster relief.

I find it curious that Mr. Stanton complains about having to wait in line to get food behind men and women who are supporting the same mission as his brothers and sisters in arms. He fails to mention that, in addition to a hot meal or two and a bed to sleep in, the carrier is providing planning space to aid in coordinating the operation, computer and communications assistance, and video teleconferencing services for lead international relief workers and organizations. Comparable facilities in Sumatra have been completely destroyed or are without power. The key to the US military's withdrawal from this operation is a speedy turnover with international organizations that can provide the same services and support-the very reason that they were onboard the USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

The description of an aircraft carrier as an "instrument of national policy" is accurate. The belief that the offensive strike capability of the air wing she carries is the only way to project this policy is flawed. Here in Indonesia, such an assumption is a slap in the face to the sailors who volunteered to go ashore and load thousands of pounds of rice into helicopters each day in the tropical heat. It fails to take into account the talent of the ship's engineering teams that were able to repair generators at the local hospital and restore electrical power. It overlooks the heroism of the navy medical personnel that saved countless lives in the wake of the tsunami's devastation. It doesn't begin to calculate the strategic value of clothing donations, a soccer ball tossed from a helicopter, or a handful of candy given to children who have lost everything they have.

With respect to the media, the only negative portrayal of Operation UNIFIED ASSISTANCE (the name given to the US military's regional response to the tsunami disaster) I have seen was Mr. Stanton's. The Indonesian press has praised our work and questioned the paucity of relief assistance from other Islamic nations. Military service members often complain that the media "doesn't get it right" and fails to cover all of the positive work we do; this time the media got it right and Mr. Stanton got it wrong.

Sincerely,

LCDR Jeff Vorce, USN

[Kydorias]

"So it is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture, with the ultimate goal of ending tyranny in our world."

"America, in this young century, proclaims liberty throughout all the world and to all the inhabitants thereof. Renewed in our strength -- tested, but not weary -- we are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom."

Bush, Inaugural Address 2005.

Did you take that to mean we are planning on attacking another country? Because I sure didn't.

Despite what a lot of short-sighted people with long term memory loss would like to believe, the United States always tries to resolve differences diplomatically before ever resorting to force. And currently, there just doesn't seem to be a situation anywhere in the world where we have exhausted all diplomatic attempts at resolution.

I think anyone who is scared that we'll continue to roll into Syria/Iran/North Korea can relax. But having said that, I know our President would never take anything off the table.

[Kydorias]

That's a good counter-point article you found Mutt. But I think "Ed Stanton's" article had more to do with attitude and gratitude than it did with the value of the mission in Indonesia.

The good things that we and the other countries that lent aid are doing is indisputable. There are many lives being saved and families being reunited due to our efforts there.

What "Ed" seems to be frustrated with is the arrogance, attitude, and ingratitude of the relief workers who think the military should drop everything it is doing in order to execute their every little whim.

EDIT: Another thing he seems to be frustrated with, and I've also experienced this firsthand, is the attitude of those we are trying to help. More specifically, a government who has no inclination nor ability to help its own citizenry trying to exert influence and control over people who know how to get things done and do things right.

And the dude in the Osama T-shirt greedily snatching up US aid packages really pisses me off.

[Armind]

perhaps Armin needs to look at the title of this thread

If Im not mistaken, it's Kydorias that titled the thread.

And if he didnt, never judge a book by it's cover. I dont see anything in that thread that gives me the impression the man wants sympathy. Empathy yes.

[Armind]

There was a correspondence between Zarqawi and Bin Laden that was interecepted several weeks back. They discussed the absolute necessity for democracy to fail in Iraq. They know dam well what a democratic country in that region will do for stability, and how badly it will hurt their cause.

[Slak]

I just received an email from a Naval Aviator aboard the Lincoln who disputes Stanton's claims and wants you to hear the other side of the story. Here are the words of Lieutenant Commander Jeff Vorce:
LCDR Jeff Vorce, USN

HOLY SHIT the Lincoln? Thats nuts. My dad works on that ship (no hes ex navy so hes not there, used to be on the USS Kitty Hawk). Anyway wow... heck my dad prolly know that guy. Weird.

[Kydorias]

If Im not mistaken, it's Kydorias that titled the thread.

And if he didnt, never judge a book by it's cover. I dont see anything in that thread that gives me the impression the man wants sympathy. Empathy yes.

Yeah, sorry. I meant the title of the thread to mean the guy writing the article has my empathy considering I've been in similar situations in the past. I know the frustration he's going through and I'm glad I'm not in his shoes.

I wasn't looking for sympathy for him nor the US military. And I don't think he was looking for sympathy either, he was simply expressing his frustration with the ungrateful relief workers who don't understand why they can't get the red carpet treatment wherever they go.

[Armind]

I didnt think ya were Kydorias, I think some people just read his account and had a negative reaction to it, and they chose a poor way to describe what they read.