Commentary: Obama's rush to judgment on police

[Silver]

Story Highlights
Maria Haberfeld: President Obama said police acted stupidly in arresting professor
She says act could be viewed as result of officers' awareness of potential danger
She says officers arrive at such scenes with heightened sense of danger

Editor's note: Maria (Maki) Haberfeld is a professor of Police Science at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York City. She has served in the Israeli Defense Force and the Israel National Police, and worked for the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration as a special consultant. From 1997 through 2001, she was a member of a research team, sponsored by the National Institute of Justice, studying police integrity in three major police departments in the United States. She is the author of "Critical Issues in Police Training" (2002) and co-author of "Enhancing Police Integrity" (2006).

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/24/haberfeld.police/index.html

I'm curious to know Arnie's take on what happened.

[Nadric]

I read the police report, and a couple different articles on this. The guy was acting like a complete dick, and pulled the race card almost immediately when in fact, he seemed to be the only racist there.

Obama was stupid to comment when the question was asked of him.

[Mutt]

I thought it was standard procedure to treat everyone like a suspect until proof can be had?

[Diraker]

The gates guy wrote about it too.

http://www.theroot.com/print/19236

I’m saying ‘You need to send someone to fix my lock.’ All of a sudden, there was a policeman on my porch. And I thought, ‘This is strange.’ So I went over to the front porch still holding the phone, and I said ‘Officer, can I help you?’ And he said, ‘Would you step outside onto the porch.’ And the way he said it, I knew he wasn’t canvassing for the police benevolent association. All the hairs stood up on the back of my neck, and I realized that I was in danger. And I said to him no, out of instinct. I said, ‘No, I will not.’

My lawyers later told me that that was a good move and had I walked out onto the porch he could have arrested me for breaking and entering. He said ‘I’m here to investigate a 911 call for breaking and entering into this house.’ And I said ‘That’s ridiculous because this happens to be my house. And I’m a Harvard professor.’ He says ‘Can you prove that you’re a Harvard professor?’ I said yes, I turned and closed the front door to the kitchen where I’d left my wallet, and I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him. And he’s sitting there looking at them.

Now it’s clear that he had a narrative in his head: A black man was inside someone’s house, probably a white person’s house, and this black man had broken and entered, and this black man was me.

So he’s looking at my ID, he asked me another question, which I refused to answer. And I said I want your name and your badge number because I want to file a complaint because of the way he had treated me at the front door. He didn’t say, ‘Excuse me, sir, is there a disturbance here, is this your house?’—he demanded that I step out on the porch, and I don’t think he would have done that if I was a white person.

But at that point, I realized that I was in danger. And so I said to him that I want your name, and I want your badge number and I said it repeatedly.

I wonder what Arn thinks too.

I also wonder what libertarians think.

Regarding Obama...
1) wasn't he supposed to be good for race relations
2) isn't he supposed to be a smart politician

[Nadric]

Wow. What a fucking tool that guy is.

[Diraker]

Here's a video of the spokesperson for the Cambridge Police Dept. saying that "both parties were wrong" and this wasn't the "best moment" for Gates or the P.D.

http://www.wickedlocal.com/cambridge/news/x135762569/Report-Charges-dropped-against-Henry-Louis-Gates

For me, when these type of stories come out my initial reaction is to favor the police. Their job is insanely impossible. But with that said I also hold police to a higher standard since they are supposed to be trained professionals. And with that said, people are human. Tempers flare. Feelings get hurt. People are in bad moods, etc. This goes for the police officer too. Maybe last week he was in a similar situation and it really was a robber, not the home owner. For Gates, he's old enough to remember lynchings and stuff; he just got back home, his door was stuck etc.

And like the spokeswoman said, I agree, that we "should all just get past it". This includes Obama, the Rush Limbaugh types, and Gates himself.

But as to the actual topic of the thread; Obama was stupid to call the police stupid.

[Silver]

But as to the actual topic of the thread; Obama was stupid to call the police stupid.

This was my point for posting it.

I love it when our president uses the public airways to pull out the:

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff79/freebirdny/PICS/obamaracecard-1-LARGE.jpg

[Drekor]

You'd think Gates would be happy that a police officer showed up when someone called saying there was a possible B&E in progress at his house. Maybe next time they'll just not show up at all?

[Diraker]

Well I think Obama's been handling this pretty well.

http://www.wbur.org/2009/07/24/obama-gates-transcript

WASHINGTON — The following transcript of President Obama’s statement Friday in the White House briefing room was released by the White House Office of Media Affairs:

President Obama: Hey, it’s a cameo appearance. Sit down, sit down. I need to help Gibbs out a little bit here.

Q: Are you the new press secretary?

Obama: If you got to do a job, do it yourself. (Laughter.)

I wanted to address you guys directly because over the last day and a half obviously there’s been all sorts of controversy around the incident that happened in Cambridge with Professor Gates and the police department there.

I actually just had a conversation with Sergeant Jim Crowley, the officer involved. And I have to tell you that as I said yesterday, my impression of him was that he was a outstanding police officer and a good man, and that was confirmed in the phone conversation — and I told him that.

And because this has been ratcheting up — and I obviously helped to contribute ratcheting it up — I want to make clear that in my choice of words I think I unfortunately gave an impression that I was maligning the Cambridge Police Department or Sergeant Crowley specifically — and I could have calibrated those words differently. And I told this to Sergeant Crowley.

I continue to believe, based on what I have heard, that there was an overreaction in pulling Professor Gates out of his home to the station. I also continue to believe, based on what I heard, that Professor Gates probably overreacted as well. My sense is you’ve got two good people in a circumstance in which neither of them were able to resolve the incident in the way that it should have been resolved and the way they would have liked it to be resolved.

The fact that it has garnered so much attention I think is a testimony to the fact that these are issues that are still very sensitive here in America. So to the extent that my choice of words didn’t illuminate, but rather contributed to more media frenzy, I think that was unfortunate.

What I’d like to do then I make sure that everybody steps back for a moment, recognizes that these are two decent people, not extrapolate too much from the facts — but as I said at the press conference, be mindful of the fact that because of our history, because of the difficulties of the past, you know, African Americans are sensitive to these issues. And even when you’ve got a police officer who has a fine track record on racial sensitivity, interactions between police officers and the African American community can sometimes be fraught with misunderstanding.

My hope is, is that as a consequence of this event this ends up being what’s called a “teachable moment,” where all of us instead of pumping up the volume spend a little more time listening to each other and try to focus on how we can generally improve relations between police officers and minority communities, and that instead of flinging accusations we can all be a little more reflective in terms of what we can do to contribute to more unity. Lord knows we need it right now — because over the last two days as we’ve discussed this issue, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but nobody has been paying much attention to health care. (Laughter.)

I will not use this time to spend more words on health care, although I can’t guarantee that that will be true next week. I just wanted to emphasize that — one last point I guess I would make. There are some who say that as President I shouldn’t have stepped into this at all because it’s a local issue. I have to tell you that that part of it I disagree with. The fact that this has become such a big issue I think is indicative of the fact that race is still a troubling aspect of our society. Whether I were black or white, I think that me commenting on this and hopefully contributing to constructive — as opposed to negative — understandings about the issue, is part of my portfolio.

So at the end of the conversation there was a discussion about — my conversation with Sergeant Crowley, there was discussion about he and I and Professor Gates having a beer here in the White House. We don’t know if that’s scheduled yet — (laughter) — but we may put that together.

He also did say he wanted to find out if there was a way of getting the press off his lawn. (Laughter.) I informed him that I can’t get the press off my lawn. (Laughter.) He pointed out that my lawn is bigger than his lawn. (Laughter.) But if anybody has any connections to the Boston press, as well as national press, Sergeant Crowley would be happy for you to stop trampling his grass.

All right. Thank you, guys.

And there was an interesting short article about the police perspective regarding disorderly conduct.

"As Officers Face Heated Words, Their Tactics Vary "

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/us/25cop.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp

This being a good point...

The issue of tolerance, in fact, lies at the heart of the dispute surrounding the arrest of the Harvard professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. in Cambridge, Mass.

The line of when to put on handcuffs is a personal and blurry one, varying among officers in the same city, the same precinct, even the same patrol car.

[Silver]

As a lawyer I'm considered to be an officer of the Court. I am also a middle aged affluent jewish white guy.

That being said, any time I see a police officer I show them the utmost respect, and speak to them in a calm reconciliatory tone. Bottom line is that if you act like an asshole to a cop, well you get what you deserve, regardless of skin color.

As an outsider to the incident it appears to me like the Professor acted like an asshole. Matter of fact he should have been appreciative that the police actually came to his residence to investigate a potential break-in rather than not showing up at all which is fairly common in many jurisdictions. The reason the door was jammed in the first place was because the house had already been burglarized, and this was the second time the police were responding to a call at the same residence.

If I was the Professor, I would have answered the officer’s questions, ceded to his requests, and thanked him for his diligence in investigating the matter. The last thing I would do is act like an asshole while making anti-Semitic accusations.

I guess I’m just weary of African Americans labeling cops and white people racist, rather than being inwardly accountable for the rampant lawlessness that is prevalent in their own communities that inevitably feeds the stereotypes that they fall victim to.

[Diraker]

Silver, help me understand.

You say you are a libertarian (at least I think you did a few times) so how do you reconcile your comment of "Bottom line is that if you act like an asshole to a cop, well you get what you deserve". Being an asshole is not a crime. Gates was on his property. Charges were dropped. etc. At what point does liberty play into this? What is your take on the catch all sort of crime 'disorderly conduct'?

I would think that libertarians would be against the notion of official agents of the government arresting people for being assholes or because they don't like someone's tone. To me, your comment "Bottom line is that if you act like an asshole to a cop, well you get what you deserve" is authoritarian more than libertarian. Can you explain this to me? Or point me in a direction where libertarians are discussing this? My two favorite ones (Penn Jillette and Michael Shermer) have yet to comment.

editted to add: Just want to say that IMO your comment of "regardless of skin color" is something I 100% agree with. IMO if Gates had been white and acted in the same manner, the officer would have still arrested him. So for me, the issue is not race but rather at what point should an officer step back and move along.

[Silver]

Silver, help me understand.

You say you are a libertarian (at least I think you did a few times) so how do you reconcile your comment of "Bottom line is that if you act like an asshole to a cop, well you get what you deserve". Being an asshole is not a crime. Gates was on his property. Charges were dropped. etc. At what point does liberty play into this? What is your take on the catch all sort of crime 'disorderly conduct'?

I would think that libertarians would be against the notion of official agents of the government arresting people for being assholes or because they don't like someone's tone. To me, your comment "Bottom line is that if you act like an asshole to a cop, well you get what you deserve" is authoritarian more than libertarian. Can you explain this to me? Or point me in a direction where libertarians are discussing this? My two favorite ones (Penn Jillette and Michael Shermer) have yet to comment.

editted to add: Just want to say that IMO your comment of "regardless of skin color" is something I 100% agree with. IMO if Gates had been white and acted in the same manner, the officer would have still arrested him. So for me, the issue is not race but rather at what point should an officer step back and move along.

You're right Dir... I am a libertarian, and the libertarian in me would want to tell the cop to get off my property if the cop was acting like an asshole...

BUT...

The practical side of me just answers the questions so that the ordeal is quick and painless. If the cop were to continue to press the issue and act unreasonably, then the libertarian Jewish lawyer in me would come out. Until then I smile, nod, and say yes sir.

[Konrad]

I somewhat agree with Diraker on this one. It is apparent that Gates was being an asshole and has completely pulled the race card, but no matter what he was saying as long as he complied with the officer's request to provide proof that the house was his residence (which he did) and as long as he did nothing to threaten the officer (which he did not) there was absolutely no grounds for his arrest.

So...as many people have said; the cops, Gates, and President Obama all have egg on their face over this one.

p.s. ...and the cop looks like a complete dick himself.

[Arnie]

Just going off of what Silver posted and the Gates followup statement.

I don't know why he was arrested. We have no statute for disorderly conduct in California. I don't know that states laws.

I see no issue with the officer asking him to step outside. Doing so removes him from a possible flight path where the officer losses sight and a potential plethora of weapons inside of an unfamiliar house.

Would I do the same? Doubtfully. In my experience, not very many elderly people are into burglary. Occasional altzheimers and mental breakdowns leading into entry into residences is fairly common, but intent to steal is not. That is not to say that elderly people cannot be extremely dangerous.

Everyday I am called a rascist. There is a sense of persecution amongst black communities and a popular culture conception that the police are out to "get" the black community.

Do I think the professor acted like a responsible citizen? Nope. Would most other races act the same way? Nope. But there are always exceptions.

If the officer would have been black, would the outcome be the same?

As for the President commenting on this issue? It leaves an extremely foul taste in my mouth.

According to the FBI’s Hate Crime statistics there were 828 incidents, 935 offenses, 975 victims and 963 known offenders for Hate Crimes that were committed because of anti-white sentiment (this does not include victims who were involved in a hate crime where the bias for the crime was something other than race, like gender or religion, and who were also white as well).

Why hasn't the President commented on any of the above crimes?

-----
If an elderly, scared and belligerent old man, regardless of race called me a rascist and could provide proof of no criminal activity I would tip my hat to him and say, "God Bless," as I walked away.

I usually say the "God Bless" just because it makes them angry as I walk away.

PS. PLAY DARKFALL. IT IS A BLAST.

[Mourne]

That Judge Napolitano (or however it's spelled) said that there is no such thing as disorderly conduct on your own property. Unless of course you're throwing things off your property or being loud enough to disturb neighbors etc.

Either way, I don't know what story to believe. Judging from what Gates said, he gave the officer his 2 forms of ID pretty much immediately. I don't really believe him tbh, because I think if he really did then there wouldn't be an issue here. I also heard that he made a huge fuss about it, going on his racial tirade, and then only gave the officer his Harvard ID initially (which does not have his address on it) and didn't attempt to give his driver's license until the officer wanted to place him under arrest. Two sides to the story and the only people that know what exactly happened and what exactly was said were the people right there when it happened.

My take is that Gates is a radical leftist and racist, but that is not a crime, hence the officer should not have placed him under arrest. The officer got pissed off because Gates was being a dick and decided to be a dick back.

I'd like to know what happens at this "beer meeting" they're having with Obama though.

[Spiker]

Nothing will happen at the beer meeting, the cop will act reasonable because he is there with the prez and under scrutiny. Gates will probably verbally throw the race-card some more (in a PC acceptable type way, that a white could never replicate), and deny (he probably doesn't even remember, due to anger) being a dick, and being overly difficult with the officer. I watched a video of Gates yesterday where he acted like he was a docile lamb during the incident, who immediately produced ID and was compliant with the exception of stepping outside, and that he didn't do anything at all until the officer crossed the line. It is clear to me that it was PR bullshit, where Gates was no longer enraged, and had the microphone and could manage to behave well for the camera.

The beer meeting is Obama's way of helping ppl see him as a leader in race relations / understanding, and the 2 of them won't do anything overly inflamatory in that setting. There will be no need to because the officer will have no need to manage Gates behavior, or ensure that something fishy is not happening. Gates will no longer need to protect his Black civil rights from the mean white authority figure since the president is 'The Man', but he is half black and half white. So it will look great for Obama, when the 3 emerge from the meeting over beers all understanding each other and the escalation and media frenzy will come to a nice little ending.

[Mourne]

lol nice. Probably completely right. What a waste of time this whole thing is. Obama should never have gotten involved.

[Silver]

lol nice. Probably completely right. What a waste of time this whole thing is. Obama should never have gotten involved.

I think almost everyone (left/right/center) couldn't agree more.

[Lozzt One]

As I look at reports and listen to the tapes I can only draw one conclusion. The officer was doing his job investigating a reported B/E. Gates immediately took offense to being accosted by an officer in his home. After the officer was provided with identification and went to leave, Gates followed him out spouting whatever leftist/racial nonsense. It's true you can't be disorderly in your home. However, I'm willing to be that the neighborhood has covenant that talks about being disorderly outside. The officer reacted (whether in the publics interest or his own remains to be seen however, I'm inclined to think his own) which led to the resulting arrest. It's ashame that after all these years people can't let race go. I hate to say it though, and please do not flame me, but the most racially charged people are those of minority races. Being quick to judge others based on race rather than merits and situations.

[Mourne]

As much controversy as it might spark, I've encountered and witnessed more racism from minorities, so I agree with Lozzt. I guess they see it as their turn? lol

[Norin]

Ill agree with you Lozzt. Personally most racist comments and stuff i have seen have come from minorities. I am a minority and im not proud to claim half my family since they always wanna claim a racist thing happened when i have been there to watch them create the situation. Whether or not people can get around these situations will only be tested more and more with time. Personally i just wish it wouldnt resort back to this, but people love to dwell on this stuff it seems.

Whether this comes out wrong or not....i know what i was trying to say...just writing this down quick before work.

[Shokar]

I am a minority .

Don't bring up your Paladin background , mate.

[Aradorn]

There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do do not want to lose their jobs.


http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Booker_T._Washington#My_Larger_Education.2C_Being_ Chapters_from_My_Experience_.281911.29

[Norin]

Don't bring up your Paladin background , mate.

If being a paladin made me a minority....then you are there with me bud.

[Diraker]

I bothed liked and hated my paladin in WoW. I blame Drekor.

[Shokar]

Yah, Drek gave me an inferiority complex about my Pally. Drek was too good.

[Mourne]

Did you guys have ret pallys or tankadins?

[Diraker]

I had a holy paladin. I only did arena and battlegrounds though.

[Shokar]

Holy here, too. Norin had a tankadin though and Thael was Ret.

[Norin]

My pally is ret/prot now....Thael is still playing ret on his. Heck....he is in the top 10 for overall dps worldwide on razorscale fight. Only paladin to break that point.

On a side note my pally has been somewhat shelved. Still play it on occasion but tank on my DK more than anything..but alliance is annoying me...so i have been playing my Orc rogue more and more lately. Its good stuff.

[Drekor]

uh oh...

*runs and hides*

[Mourne]

uh oh...

*runs and hides*

lololol

Ret pallies were owning face when I stopped playing. Not sure if they wound up catching a nerf or not, but they would pretty much insta-kill my rogue if I was out of stealth. About three 2k+ crits in less than two seconds and that's all she wrote.

[Norin]

They are trying to nerf the burst damage while leaving the sustained. But in doing so ret pallies still are doing decent overall. The big cry right now is that people are crying over rogues being 15-20% damage over top of everyone else. But blizz stated rogues are supposed to be the leaders basically. Yet the majority of the playerbase wants to cry for nerfs on everything.

People just need to learn, that nerfing everything else to the ground doesnt make them suck less. They all stick suck cuz most of them are FotM rerollers.