Inc: PETA vs Jews/Muslims

[Mutt]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17972-animals-feel-the-pain-of-religious-slaughter.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news
This would be an interesting protest to see. PETA rallying in a synagogue or mosque due to religious slaughter of halal or kosher animals.

[Diraker]

In most western countries, animals must be stunned before they are slaughtered, but there is an exemption for religious practice, most prominently Jewish shechita and Muslim dhabiha

No special privileges for religion.

[Mutt]

Is that a statement of fact or a demand/request?

[TheKraken]

So the religious methods may cause some unspecified amount of pain?

[Satia]

Nevermind :) Nothing bad, I just deleted my post (not arguing at all.. personally I'm going to make popcorn for this showdown.)

[TheKraken]

I was thinking about it. Veal don't exactly lead great lives. If you agree with stopping religious slaughter, then you have to be against veal. I refuse to live in a vealless world!

To be clear, my issue isn't the religious side as much as how far we should extend protections for animals.

[Whisper]

If the end result is that you're going to eat it, who the fuck cares?

[Diraker]

Is that a statement of fact or a demand/request?

A statement that if there's a law, then there should be no religious exceptions to that law.

Some laws I agree with, some I do not. Regulating the methods used to slaughter animals, although not high on my priorties list, is still law and religious people should still have to follow the law.

Mutt, have you followed that Sharia Court thing in Canada? Do you think it's ok for Muslims (and Jews) to get their special religious courts? Would it be ok for, say Rastafarians, to smoke and distribute pot while everyone else who does so is still a criminal? Is it ok for Mormons, and Mormons only, to have 7 wives...and 3 are relatives? Would it be ok for Muslims to marry 9 year olds but for everyone else the age of consent is 18? Do you like double standards? What about double standards enshrined in law?

edited to add: I missed mentioning vaccines. You can get a religious exemption and schools, day cares, etc (public and private) must still accept you. Again, should only children of certain religious parents be exempt? And again, I am not arguing for or against any particular law. I am simply stating that we all be treated equally under the law. That there ought to be no religious exceptions to law.

[Silver]

I think if they want an exemption to the law they should be required to provide proof that there really is an imaginary man in the sky.

[Mutt]

If the end result is that you're going to eat it, who the fuck cares?lol true enough. I believe the practice around these parts is a bolt to the brain. Quick and to the point.

[Aradorn]

all i can do is laugh at whispers comment...

oh and we drop live lobsters in boiling water...

[Mutt]

lobsters dont have complex nervous systems

[Gnioss]

If the end result is that you're going to eat it, who the fuck cares?

Needless cruelty to animals doesn't do anyone any good, it only does the animal excessive harm. We kill it to eat it, not to torture it for it's last remaining seconds. I'm not opposed to killing things and eating them, but for the same reason I don't burn ants under magnifying glasses or kill cats for fun, I'm opposed to the needless suffering of anything for no gain.

[Aradorn]

lobsters dont have complex nervous systems

your point? Are we now going to make exceptions for certain animals who are not as advanced as others? And who decides that?

[Mutt]

Im saying, how else would you kill/cook a lobster? Decapitate it? Electrocute it? Stab a nail through its brain cavity? For a lobster, boiling it is damn near the most practical and humane way to cook it.

[Aradorn]

but its still alive when you drop it in boiling water... how is that any less cruel?

[Diraker]

Good Eats talked about 'philosophical baggage' and lobsters.

About 5:00 in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoLHap8KNIY

[Elora]

(removed for wandering off topic... sorry!)

[Silver]

but its still alive when you drop it in boiling water... how is that any less cruel?

You know it is funny you bring this up... the last time I cooked lobster, I was really bummed when I dropped them in the water. Seriously. It kinda spoiled my dinner, and I haven't cooked lobster since.

[Aradorn]

haha

[Whisper]

Needless cruelty to animals doesn't do anyone any good, it only does the animal excessive harm. We kill it to eat it, not to torture it for it's last remaining seconds. I'm not opposed to killing things and eating them, but for the same reason I don't burn ants under magnifying glasses or kill cats for fun, I'm opposed to the needless suffering of anything for no gain.

Ok, I get that, but then we get into who determines the standards for "needless" and what constitutes torture. We get wrapped up in the process of killing something being a certain way, when the end result is exactly the same.

If you're not waterboarding your cows...

[Aradorn]

water boarding a cow would be umm.... kind of hard =p but cow tipping is really fun, well that is if you take people that have never been before.

[Pfriar]

lol true enough. I believe the practice around these parts is a bolt to the brain. Quick and to the point.

Actually the best way to do it is bloodletting, so the animal bleeds to death. This way the blood does coagulate in the tissues and cause other problems for butchering.

So Shocking the animal unconscious and then slitting the throat is the best, while hanging the animal from the back leg/s.

Of course I have seen a half bleed to death animal fall from the chain, awaken.. and rush the person that just slit it's throat.. Throwing the man's knife into the man's eye, causing emergency services to have to air-lift the man to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester MN. To save his life.. He lost the eye.. And has other mental issues now.. but Alive.

Yes I saw this happen....

[Mutt]

You can bloodlet after the brain bolt I believe.

When we slaughtered our pigs, it was a 22 to the head and then slit the throat

[Pfriar]

You can bloodlet after the brain bolt I believe.

When we slaughtered our pigs, it was a 22 to the head and then slit the throat

That might be, in the slaughter house I worked at we shocked them and then did what I said before so the heart would pump out the blood.

I just wanted to tell my eye story.. ;)

[Shokar]

That's a messed up story, Pfriar.

[Pfriar]

So sometimes the Animals get their revenge, maybe Peta doesn't know that..

[TheKraken]

your point? Are we now going to make exceptions for certain animals who are not as advanced as others? And who decides that?
Obama.

[Timestretch]

That might be, in the slaughter house I worked at we shocked them and then did what I said before so the heart would pump out the blood.

I just wanted to tell my eye story.. ;)

Sounds to me like a video-taped re-enactment would be the perfect spirit quest.