PS3 vs Wii and Mac's Suck.

[Drekor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YowSRspQWQE&mode=related&search=

The Wii makes a very compelling argument. :smile_ok:

In other news... Mac's suck! (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=macs_cant)

[Harrison]

Stupid.

[Maj]

Rofl, I think I see Bob in that picture

[Shokar]

This section was supposed to be longer, but I couldn't even install iTunes so I could bitch about it. Not that I could have used it for what I wanted to anyway:

"You also agree that you will not use these products for ... the development, design, manufacture or production of missles, or nuclear, chemical or biological weapons."
From the actual iTunes End User License Agreement.

If I want to manufacture biological weapons with my copy of iTunes, I will, fascists. Ditch this bullshit.


:plol:

[Mijin]

Had a teacher in HS that always talked about how great macs are and how bad PCs where. Great class but that shit is annoying...and to make it worse i guess she felt the need to have posters on the wall about it.

Macs are so great you can rename important files by mistake and if you forget what the name was your screwed...

[Mijin]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc

there we go...explains a lot of the problems I've had with macs

[Stonulf]

Here is an interesting article.

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTM0OCwxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA==

[Mutt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaTiR-j4e98&NR=1 lolz suck my idick

[Harrison]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iEAGmBRC1dc

there we go...explains a lot of the problems I've had with macs
That guy's an idiot if you rename a system file and then some how lose it you just search for recently opened files and change it back if your system crashed you just use the unix comand line . It makes me laugh reading posts like these because as every one who isn't retarded knows a mac is just easier to fix if something goes wrong which it rarely does. I've owned the mac I'm on now for 14 months I have never once crashed. Not one single time. Yes mac hardware is more expensive the mark up is around 35-40% but I'll gladly pay it not to have to deal with bullshit. I mean honestly I do alot of photo and vid editing and my alternatives as far as windows and linux software go are just laughably bad. The other thing that makes me just shake my head is NEWS FLASH: OSX AND WINDOWS ARE NOT COMPETITORS. They apeal to different people windows is for your average user to do what ever on macs are for creative people. You aren't going to find the same features on a corvette as you will on a ferrari they are made to apeal to different people. Windows is the market while osx is the niche . I love my mac so do most people that own them. We're only 6 months to a year away from windows software running on os x native anyway . Next version of os x is out in a few months new back up software new gui new file system new version of x code to make writing software easier and I'll be able to run windows,os x and linux on the same box .

[Mutt]

I think the main rule of thumb: run what you are comfortable with and for what you need.

[Mijin]

That guy's an idiot if you rename a system file and then some how lose it you just search for recently opened files and change it back if your system crashed you just use the unix comand line . It makes me laugh reading posts like these because as every one who isn't retarded knows a mac is just easier to fix if something goes wrong which it rarely does. I've owned the mac I'm on now for 14 months I have never once crashed. Not one single time. Yes mac hardware is more expensive the mark up is around 35-40% but I'll gladly pay it not to have to deal with bullshit. I mean honestly I do alot of photo and vid editing and my alternatives as far as windows and linux software go are just laughably bad. The other thing that makes me just shake my head is NEWS FLASH: OSX AND WINDOWS ARE NOT COMPETITORS. They apeal to different people windows is for your average user to do what ever on macs are for creative people. You aren't going to find the same features on a corvette as you will on a ferrari they are made to apeal to different people. Windows is the market while osx is the niche . I love my mac so do most people that own them. We're only 6 months to a year away from windows software running on os x native anyway .

Everyone has different experiences with different systems and just so happens that mine with macs are a nightmare. My PC has never crashed and as i mentioned in another post never seen a blue screen since i was 4 or 5 years old. I did animation for a while and had to do most of my Maya stuff on a mac which i didn't like because i had to get used to the thing and on top of that exporting files from mac to my pc left the gamma uber bright. Other then that i didnt mind mac much(besides past problems i listed above). Not being able to upgrade them and the lack of games for macs are what most PC users prefer not to deal with, i really dont mind running Virus/Spyware scans as long as i dont have to upgrade a whole PC when it cant run games anymore.

[Mijin]

Curse the no edit key...brought up the renaming issue because in HS i clicked on the name of someones file and then clicked off and it just deleted the name period for some reason and couldn't remember whos folder it was. Guess it was just my PC state of mind but im just used to clicking off of the file to remove selection.

[Harrison]

Everyone has different experiences with different systems and just so happens that mine with macs are a nightmare. My PC has never crashed and as i mentioned in another post never seen a blue screen since i was 4 or 5 years old. I did animation for a while and had to do most of my Maya stuff on a mac which i didn't like because i had to get used to the thing and on top of that exporting files from mac to my pc left the gamma uber bright. Other then that i didnt mind mac much(besides past problems i listed above). Not being able to upgrade them and the lack of games for macs are what most PC users prefer not to deal with, i really dont mind running Virus/Spyware scans as long as i dont have to upgrade a whole PC when it cant run games anymore.
The gama thing is a setting . There are several pieces of software in developement now that will let you run windows programs under os x the gaming thng will only be an issue for so long. I'll be using a mac for awhile because it gives me options . As far as not being able to upgrade them if your using anything besides the lowest end model upgrades are easy I've done several to my system, I've gotten faster cpus switched vid cards put 4 gigs more ram in than it came with and I'm considering buying another 3 video cards to put in (because I can).Mac hardware and pc hardware since mac switched to intel cpus with only a couple exeptions are the exact same. I can work on my mac because I've had so much expierience working on my pc's.

[Harrison]

Curse the no edit key...brought up the renaming issue because in HS i clicked on the name of someones file and then clicked off and it just deleted the name period for some reason and couldn't remember whos folder it was. Guess it was just my PC state of mind but im just used to clicking off of the file to remove selection.
It might also have been an earlier version of mac os. Most of the things you see in the media ragging on mac are pre osx when the os was definately a pos.

[Shib]

That guy's an idiot if you rename a system file and then some how lose it you just search for recently opened files and change it back if your system crashed you just use the unix comand line . It makes me laugh reading posts like these because as every one who isn't retarded knows a mac is just easier to fix if something goes wrong which it rarely does. I've owned the mac I'm on now for 14 months I have never once crashed. Not one single time. Yes mac hardware is more expensive the mark up is around 35-40% but I'll gladly pay it not to have to deal with bullshit. I mean honestly I do alot of photo and vid editing and my alternatives as far as windows and linux software go are just laughably bad. The other thing that makes me just shake my head is NEWS FLASH: OSX AND WINDOWS ARE NOT COMPETITORS. They apeal to different people windows is for your average user to do what ever on macs are for creative people. You aren't going to find the same features on a corvette as you will on a ferrari they are made to apeal to different people. Windows is the market while osx is the niche . I love my mac so do most people that own them. We're only 6 months to a year away from windows software running on os x native anyway . Next version of os x is out in a few months new back up software new gui new file system new version of x code to make writing software easier and I'll be able to run windows,os x and linux on the same box .

check and mate.

oh, by the way, maybe it's time to do some price comparisons -> http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9023959

[Maj]

My PC hasnt crashed since win2k and even then it probably only cashed once or twice.

Mac has some integrated tools that are useful for amateur "creative" people. Thats why there is a misconception that they are far greater for art and media.

If you want to play the "some people like apples and some people like oranges" card then I can accept that, its a good argument and lets leave it at that.

[Harrison]

My PC hasnt crashed since win2k and even then it probably only cashed once or twice.

Mac has some integrated tools that are useful for amateur "creative" people. Thats why there is a misconception that they are far greater for art and media.

If you want to play the "some people like apples and some people like oranges" card then I can accept that, its a good argument and lets leave it at that.
Sorry but I wasn't refering to those amature tools I was refering to programs like aperture and final cut pro. It's not about "some people like apples some people like oranges" for me because I want both and a pear (linux) on a mac I can have all 3 . The software I was talking about that lets you run windows apps inside os x is at http://www.codeweavers.com/products/ . That means windows apps with less risk of viruses and no need to buy a vista license . I like my mac I'll be buying another when os x 10.5 comes out.Lets leave it at THAT.

[Ablate]

I dont like Mac OS

[Cydus]

I dont buy products for the name, I buy them for their ability to achieve my goal. My goal is to game, surf, talk and do minor other things on my computer, pretty much all of my free time. I also work with a limited budget. I may not be the smartest with computers, but I definitely know my way around. I know how to avoid malware and spyware on my own, and I know what to do when something goes wrong on my computer, which an extremely rare ocassion.

The one time I bought an apple product (an ipod nano), I was severely disappointed. Not only is Itunes probably the worst piece of software I've ever worked with, but for the price I paid I should have received a lot more. My 50$ mp3 player I was using before the nano was approximately equal in ability to my nano in terms of what I used it for, working out with.

The HardOCP article seemed spot on to me. For people who actually know what the hell they're doing on a computer and prefer value when making purchases, they buy PC's. For people who are less than willing to tweak their systems, are interested in aesthetics, are left wing liberals, or feel like spending too much money for something, they buy Apples.

Ok flame on.

[Ablate]

I kinda like itunes, but that is in regards to an 80gb ipod, I would fucking hate it for a much smaller nano.

[Harrison]

I dont buy products for the name, I buy them for their ability to achieve my goal. My goal is to game, surf, talk and do minor other things on my computer, pretty much all of my free time. I also work with a limited budget. I may not be the smartest with computers, but I definitely know my way around. I know how to avoid malware and spyware on my own, and I know what to do when something goes wrong on my computer, which an extremely rare ocassion.

The one time I bought an apple product (an ipod nano), I was severely disappointed. Not only is Itunes probably the worst piece of software I've ever worked with, but for the price I paid I should have received a lot more. My 50$ mp3 player I was using before the nano was approximately equal in ability to my nano in terms of what I used it for, working out with.

The HardOCP article seemed spot on to me. For people who actually know what the hell they're doing on a computer and prefer value when making purchases, they buy PC's. For people who are less than willing to tweak their systems, are interested in aesthetics, are left wing liberals, or feel like spending too much money for something, they buy Apples.

Ok flame on.
I wasn't talking about itunes if you don't like itunes use one of the other 50000000 apps available The ipod is not a mac nor does it run osx so it doesn't have much to do with what I said. If you were disapointed because your nano did as much as your $50 mp3 player maybe you should have saved yourself the money you spent by doing some research before buying the nano so you could have made an informed decision and bought something that suited your needs better in terms of price and functionality. As far the rest of your post it's incorrect exept that macs are more atheticly pleasing , why not throw your parts into a nice looking case . You can "tweak" a mac to a much greater extent than a pc , the hardware is basicly the same and you have options like x serve raid that you don't have with a pc . As far as tweaking it software wise goes the fact is it's alot more flexible just because of the fact that you can instal the extra os. "For people who actually know what the hell they're doing on a computer" a unix/linux based os is the only option unless your gaming, which as I said earlier will only be an issue for so long .I'm not going to respond to the comment generalizing mac's customers other than to say it's kinda retarded . Your post is completely ignorant of the facts .

[Ablate]

Is there a lot of BIOS options for tweaking Macs?

[Harrison]

Do you mean different brands of bios for your mac? Macs only use mac bios just like sony only uses sony bios . Mac bios are called open firmware you use them with command line and tbh I don't know much about them because I've never had to mess with them .

[Relapse]

Apples are much better for pretty much all graphic arts programs. I worked all through college with both and PCs just don't come near what Macs can handle when doing larger products. PCs are getting better, but Macs still outrank them.

By no means are PCs crappy, they just don't hold the same standards as Mac products do these days. Gaming probably is better on a PC due to it being the most popular computer that people buy, I have no argument with that.

And to call someone a liberal based on the computer they buy is just ignorant.

Both have advantages, you buy what works best for you. Just don't talk out of your ass if you haven't recently used both in depth.

[Drekor]

I haven't actually used a mac since like 3rd grade I just thought the site was funny :)

[Mijin]

Apples are much better for pretty much all graphic arts programs. I worked all through college with both and PCs just don't come near what Macs can handle when doing larger products. PCs are getting better, but Macs still outrank them.

By no means are PCs crappy, they just don't hold the same standards as Mac products do these days. Gaming probably is better on a PC due to it being the most popular computer that people buy, I have no argument with that.

And to call someone a liberal based on the computer they buy is just ignorant.

Both have advantages, you buy what works best for you. Just don't talk out of your ass if you haven't recently used both in depth.

As i mentioned i worked with both for animation, didnt notice any huge difference besides the fact that PC could render faster due to dual core/hyper thread at the time which was probably a good year ago. Meaning i could render my Maya project at x4 instead of x2. Photoshop pretty much runs same from what i noticed as well, think the graphics thing is a bit old...both comps seem to work similar as long as the program can use both types. Main thing a Mac has are the other types of software not available to a PC.

Or maybe im just horrible at not noticing small difference :smile_ok:

[Mijin]

We can fling poo at this subject for months but wont really get anywhere besides personal preference because from what I've seen, the programs that both PC and Mac can run, work about the same.

[Shib]

the programs that both PC and Mac can run, work about the same.

yeah, the only thing is... macs can run mac programs, linux programs, unix programs, bsd programs and windows programs. windows can only run windows programs.

EOF

[Mijin]

yeah, the only thing is... macs can run mac programs, linux programs, unix programs, bsd programs and windows programs. windows can only run windows programs.

EOF

So this goes from a thread about bad experiences with an operating system and how programs run on each, to just card stacking and seeing how many types of files you can use with a Mac. Its cool that it can do all that but what are half the users going to do with most of that besides running a primary OS and possibly dual booting Linux on the side for other needs. If most users needed to run Unix/BSD on a comp then im sure they would go with macs for flexibility, but would most people even need all that? Why aren't PC users trying to run OS X...probably because its simply not necessary, because everyday things can just be done with Windows alone, never recalled myself trying to find a program to boot in OS X because Windows could not run my file. What does that mean? It means that Windows does what im expecting of it and doing it just fine.

Its like buying a normal car thats gets you around just fine but can have things added if needed. Then theres another car that comes with PS3, 360, Wii, surround sound speakers and 4 TV screens...does the average person honestly need all that? Not at all, nice to have but not necessary.

Again all preference, by the way, what does EOF mean?

[Harrison]

So this goes from a thread about bad experiences with an operating system and how programs run on each, to just card stacking and seeing how many types of files you can use with a Mac. Its cool that it can do all that but what are half the users going to do with most of that besides running a primary OS and possibly dual booting Linux on the side for other needs. If most users needed to run Unix/BSD on a comp then im sure they would go with macs for flexibility, but would most people even need all that? Why aren't PC users trying to run OS X...probably because its simply not necessary, because everyday things can just be done with Windows alone, never recalled myself trying to find a program to boot in OS X because Windows could not run my file. What does that mean? It means that Windows does what im expecting of it and doing it just fine.

Its like buying a normal car thats gets you around just fine but can have things added if needed. Then theres another car that comes with PS3, 360, Wii, surround sound speakers and 4 TV screens...does the average person honestly need all that? Not at all, nice to have but not necessary.

Again all preference, by the way, what does EOF mean?
The point is some people need to run those apps and others that only run on os x and some people don't which is why some people use macs and some people don't . Again it's a preference thing.

[Ablate]

I mean can I tweak CPU multipliers, bus speeds, ram timings, etc. in the BIOS of a mac, like I can with my PC, please note this is OS independent. I am just interested in the freedom of tweaking available with proprietary hardware like macs.

[Harrison]

Noidea never had to overclock one they're fast as hell as is. My mac has 2 dual core 2.5 gig cpus the only thing overclocking would do to my system would be to burn it out faster no need for more speed.

[Cydus]

Noidea never had to overclock one they're fast as hell as is. My mac has 2 dual core 2.5 gig cpus the only thing overclocking would do to my system would be to burn it out faster no need for more speed.

Exactly my point, power users who know and understand hardware and are willing to eke that extra nanosecond out of their chipsets like the Hard OCP article mentioned, are more likely to choose a PC.

Ignorance is bliss i spose.

[Harrison]

If you can find an app that I can't run on my box I'd love to see it.Also once again your generalizing mac users which is just stupid , not all mac users are the same. I personaly wouldn't overclock any system. Point blank you don't know what your talking about.

[Harrison]

I also think the fact that you don't know enough about what your talking about to say something deragatory about mac hardware so your going after the fictional "typical mac user" is kinda funny and pathetic.When was the last time you built,opened up or even saw a mac in person?

[Ablate]

The conroes (core2 Duo) in PCs are the exact same, plenty fast as-is. It's the same reason people drop big engines into little cars, some people like playing around/tweaking stuff to do things outside the "norm". Besides, why pay an extra 500 bucks for 2.5ghz, when you can save the money and set a cheaper CPU to run at 2.6ghz with no ill effects provided you have an idea what you're doing?

An example is myself. For the investment of 60 bucks for a better HS/FAN, I was able to take a relatively cheap AMD x2 3800+, overclock it to 2.4ghz (from its stock 2.0ghz) and save close to 600 bucks off the price of the then top-end x2 4800+ processor.

[Mutt]

Its not that you over clock etc to make a program run, you do it to make it run better. Its like putting after market parts on your car

[Drekor]

What programs does a home user need that don't run on windows?

[Aradorn]

im a developer and i can tell you that i would take a mac over a pc anyday of the week.

[Aradorn]

macs do more out of the box than a pc does point blank. Stuff that obviously was thought of and makes a ton of sense for any computer.

For example you can take a mac and using a firewire cable you can clone the HDD to the other mac instantly on booting. You can do this for firewire hdds as well (makes it awesome for backing up).

The terminal alone makes it king over windows for developing.

mail is far superior to outlook.

there is no need for drivers - when my parents Imac arrived they had just bought a REALLY nice wireless printer from HP. As soon as I booted up it had already recognized and configured the settings for the printer and I could instantly print without having to go through all that annoying dialog you find in windows environments.

installing applications is as easy as drag and drop. Thats it!

dock > start menu (RocketDock for those wanting a windows variant)

[Mutt]

lol saying mail is better than outlook is a pretty weak point. Everything is better than outlook. Thunderbird, groupwise, etc. Besides google mail is the wave of the future

[Ablate]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2006031,00.html

I hate Macs


Charlie Brooker
Monday February 5, 2007
The Guardian

Unless you have been walking around with your eyes closed, and your head encased in a block of concrete, with a blindfold tied round it, in the dark - unless you have been doing that, you surely can't have failed to notice the current Apple Macintosh campaign starring David Mitchell and Robert Webb, which has taken over magazines, newspapers and the internet in a series of brutal coordinated attacks aimed at causing massive loss of resistance. While I don't have anything against shameless promotion per se (after all, within these very brackets I'm promoting my own BBC4 show, which starts tonight at 10pm), there is something infuriating about this particular blitz. In the ads, Webb plays a Mac while Mitchell adopts the mantle of a PC. We know this because they say so right at the start of the ad.

"Hello, I'm a Mac," says Webb.

"And I'm a PC," adds Mitchell.

They then perform a small comic vignette aimed at highlighting the differences between the two computers. So in one, the PC has a "nasty virus" that makes him sneeze like a plague victim; in another, he keeps freezing up and having to reboot. This is a subtle way of saying PCs are unreliable. Mitchell, incidentally, is wearing a nerdy, conservative suit throughout, while Webb is dressed in laid-back contemporary casual wear. This is a subtle way of saying Macs are cool.

The ads are adapted from a near-identical American campaign - the only difference is the use of Mitchell and Webb. They are a logical choice in one sense (everyone likes them), but a curious choice in another, since they are best known for the television series Peep Show - probably the best sitcom of the past five years - in which Mitchell plays a repressed, neurotic underdog, and Webb plays a selfish, self-regarding poseur. So when you see the ads, you think, "PCs are a bit rubbish yet ultimately lovable, whereas Macs are just smug, preening tossers." In other words, it is a devastatingly accurate campaign.

I hate Macs. I have always hated Macs. I hate people who use Macs. I even hate people who don't use Macs but sometimes wish they did. Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults; computers for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work; computers for people who earnestly believe in feng shui.

PCs are the ramshackle computers of the people. You can build your own from scratch, then customise it into oblivion. Sometimes you have to slap it to make it work properly, just like the Tardis (Doctor Who, incidentally, would definitely use a PC). PCs have charm; Macs ooze pretension. When I sit down to use a Mac, the first thing I think is, "I hate Macs", and then I think, "Why has this rubbish aspirational ornament only got one mouse button?" Losing that second mouse button feels like losing a limb. If the ads were really honest, Webb would be standing there with one arm, struggling to open a packet of peanuts while Mitchell effortlessly tore his apart with both hands. But then, if the ads were really honest, Webb would be dressed in unbelievably po-faced avant-garde clothing with a gigantic glowing apple on his back. And instead of conducting a proper conversation, he would be repeatedly congratulating himself for looking so cool, and banging on about how he was going to use his new laptop to write a novel, without ever getting round to doing it, like a mediocre idiot.

Cue 10 years of nasal bleating from Mac-likers who profess to like Macs not because they are fashionable, but because "they are just better". Mac owners often sneer that kind of defence back at you when you mock their silly, posturing contraptions, because in doing so, you have inadvertently put your finger on the dark fear haunting their feeble, quivering soul - that in some sense, they are a superficial semi-person assembled from packaging; an infinitely sad, second-rate replicant who doesn't really know what they are doing here, but feels vaguely significant and creative each time they gaze at their sleek designer machine. And the more deftly constructed and wittily argued their defence, the more terrified and wounded they secretly are.

Aside from crowing about sartorial differences, the adverts also make a big deal about PCs being associated with "work stuff" (Boo! Offices! Boo!), as opposed to Macs, which are apparently better at "fun stuff". How insecure is that? And how inaccurate? Better at "fun stuff", my arse. The only way to have fun with a Mac is to poke its insufferable owner in the eye. For proof, stroll into any decent games shop and cast your eye over the exhaustive range of cutting-edge computer games available exclusively for the PC, then compare that with the sort of rubbish you get on the Mac. Myst, the most pompous and boring videogame of all time, a plodding, dismal "adventure" in which you wandered around solving tedious puzzles in a rubbish magic kingdom apparently modelled on pretentious album covers, originated on the Mac in 1993. That same year, the first shoot-'em-up game, Doom, was released on the PC. This tells you all you will ever need to know about the Mac's relationship with "fun".

Ultimately the campaign's biggest flaw is that it perpetuates the notion that consumers somehow "define themselves" with the technology they choose. If you truly believe you need to pick a mobile phone that "says something" about your personality, don't bother. You don't have a personality. A mental illness, maybe - but not a personality. Of course, that hasn't stopped me slagging off Mac owners, with a series of sweeping generalisations, for the past 900 words, but that is what the ads do to PCs. Besides, that's what we PC owners are like - unreliable, idiosyncratic and gleefully unfair. And if you'll excuse me now, I feel an unexpected crash coming.

[Mutt]

"PCs are a bit rubbish yet ultimately lovable, whereas Macs are just smug, preening tossers."

lol

[Aradorn]

I hate Macs. I have always hated Macs. I hate people who use Macs. I even hate people who don't use Macs but sometimes wish they did. Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults; computers for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work; computers for people who earnestly believe in feng shui.

he obviously has never actually sat down and tried to use a mac.

PCs are the ramshackle computers of the people. You can build your own from scratch, then customise it into oblivion.

the percentage of people who do this is very very small. Saying this is the selling point of a pc is stupid. You can customize a mac too.

Why has this rubbish aspirational ornament only got one mouse button?

because the GUI is so fucking awsome you only need 1 mouse button. But this dipshit dosnt realize that they now make 2 button mice and also YOU CAN PLUG IN ANY FUCKING MOUSE YOU WANT INTO THE DAMN MACHINE AND IT WORKS (NO DRIVERS REQUIRED!!!!)

he made absolutely no argument as to why macs suck, and noone else can for that matter.

[Mijin]

he obviously has never actually sat down and tried to use a mac.



the percentage of people who do this is very very small. Saying this is the selling point of a pc is stupid. You can customize a mac too.



because the GUI is so fucking awsome you only need 1 mouse button. But this dipshit dosnt realize that they now make 2 button mice and also YOU CAN PLUG IN ANY FUCKING MOUSE YOU WANT INTO THE DAMN MACHINE AND IT WORKS (NO DRIVERS REQUIRED!!!!)

he made absolutely no argument as to why macs suck, and noone else can for that matter.

I was not planning on posting here again to just kind of let it die but PCs dont require you to have Drivers for everything...think that was like 12 years ago or something. Most things this day and time are just pure PnP, unless you get a video card then you pull the newest or reliable ones from the company site.

[Ablate]

It's not a debate, it was an opinion piece that fit well to the discussion IMO.

[Shib]

uh, k. mac os 9 maybe.

besides the entire thing reaking of FUD, I especially enjoyed this part:

computers for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work

yeah, unix is easy... I have no idea how a computer works when I can see device files and drivers, take a boo around every process running, who's running it, what sockets and ports are currently being used... in 2 seconds, without clicking 1000 times through various "wizards".

I hate knowing what every mem address is being used for, or not having to defrag my harddrive, ever. Hell, even a built in indexing sheme in the filesystem's a pain in the ass as well. Not to mention getting every decent feature windows has 5 years sooner, that really sucks (spotlight/vista search anyone?). The real shitty thing is that the original seems to work better and faster than the windows version, I hate that... I also hate not having to have over a gig of memory just to boot the operating system, what am I supposed to do with all this left over RAM?

Oh, yeah... and paying $1200 bucks for a laptop is so expensive!!! OMFG I had to take out 4 loans and remorgage my house to afford a mac... and all that free software, man, that's killing my bank account. I mean, it's not like apps like garageband, iphoto, iweb and imovie are just included for free or nothing! that shit definatly costs extra cash. Oh, and don't even get me started on how expensive MS office is... man, if I had a PC that'd be free, right?

I don't know, I just really miss the days of building my own computer, frying the onboard NIC and soundcard after forgetting some damn wire or another, and then booting it (I liked waiting 2-3 minutes to boot) to a waiting 14 driver installs, all requiring thier own reboot to install "correctly" then to have them corrupt themselfs or need some damn update that breaks something else anyways.

Here's the reason mac and pc users will never get along. it's the same reason scientists and christians won't get along... ONE SIDE HAS COME TO A TRUTH THE OTHER SIDE WILL NOT ACCEPT FOR NO REASON.

here's the secret -> computers, can be as easy or as hard as you like, on the same system. If you want to install some crazy daemon or really learn how your system (and hey, all systems for that matter) work, macs will let you. If you want to use your computer, browse some shit, chat, play some games, mac will let you. you don't have to fuck around for 8 hours after installing mac os x, you just boot it up and you're going. that, is the truth... you don't believe me, because you've never used science. in fact, every time you see a scientific argument, you dismiss it as blasphomy to god. you do not listen to reason, and you will not retort with facts.

case in point, I've already shown how macs are in fact cheaper than PCs. several people have continued to say the opposite, please go back that claim up now. thx. do not go find some parts and throw them together yourself with a case, that's not the argument, peiced computers will always be cheaper, I'm talking about a computer with all the features of a mac, one of which includes not having to put the damn thing together yourself. once you look at the specs on normal mac computers (read: not mac mini) you will notice that holy shit, that stuff inside them really doesn't compare to your $399 dell that you bought. wow, imagine that. it's more expensive than a $399 dell because it's a better computer with better specs. let's start comparing the same thing.

LOOK IT OVER

EOF

[Aradorn]

I was not planning on posting here again to just kind of let it die but PCs dont require you to have Drivers for everything...think that was like 12 years ago or something. Most things this day and time are just pure PnP, unless you get a video card then you pull the newest or reliable ones from the company site.

yes you are required to have drivers (you need them for any OS) nothing is purely pnp, however, Macs recognize majority of all hardware that it interfaces with so there is no need for this. However, when you install something "new" on a pc you have to go through the entire dialog of setting it up.

Macs become way more user friendly than pcs in the end. Im a Software Engineer and I have do deal wtih this crap on a daily basis and I would much rather work with a mac any day of the week than a pc with windows.

oh and this debate isnt about PC vs Mac its about OSX vs Windows.

Mac hardware is the exact same as PC hardware

however the OS's are different.

[Aradorn]

heh forgot one point once you own OSX you can install it on any mac you want as many times as you want.

how many times can you do this with XP? (not even going there wtih vista)

[Shib]

heh forgot one point once you own OSX you can install it on any mac you want as many times as you want.


this man speaks the truth... you don't have any of this "serial number" bullshit.

[Mijin]

Well, you got me and my bad wording...sure nothing is purely PnP but soon as the device is plugged in the drivers are pulled and installed instantly and all that pops up is a bubble on taskbar. Just kind of weird when everyone assumes PC has to go through 5+ windows of difficult questions to pull up new drivers and its simply not the case. Sure drivers have to be pulled but to do so it just requires plugging the device in and install is done almost instantly...if almost instantly is too long or difficult i dont know what to say.

[Mijin]

again i said PC ^^ sorry, Windows

[Aradorn]

given you already have the drivers on your machine it will do it with no dialog, however, most things you will install will most of the time require some driver that you do not have. For example drop in a new mobo and see if the on board nic works without you having to feed it the drivers disk. Something as simple as a nic should not need this.

I would go on a limb to say that macs are great computers for people liike my parents who just need the computer to work and surf the web. This is because its simple and easy to use.

PCs are way more involved and break more easily for non-experts (yes our systems never crash but for the typical user they do all the time).

[Aradorn]

oh expose > alt tab 4eva!

[Mutt]

I would go on a limb to say that macs are great computers for people liike my parents who just need the computer to work and surf the web. This is because its simple and easy to use. Not if they normally use windows, lay computer users dont like change. You dont realize how many support calls we get just because the new mice dont click the same as the old mice. This is part of the strength of windows market share: familiarity.

[Shib]

Not if they normally use windows, lay computer users dont like change. You dont realize how many support calls we get just because the new mice dont click the same as the old mice. This is part of the strength of windows market share: familiarity.


wrong. my parents switched after I was sick of dealing with their questions. they set it up from the box it came in and have never asked me anything to do with thier system.

nice try at spreading FUD, but that ain't gunna work here.

[Mutt]

Who cares about your parents, end users dont like change thats a fact.

And if you want to moan about FUD: "frying the onboard NIC and soundcard after forgetting some damn wire or another"

lol

[Aradorn]

Not if they normally use windows, lay computer users dont like change. You dont realize how many support calls we get just because the new mice dont click the same as the old mice. This is part of the strength of windows market share: familiarity.

i would agree somewhat, but the problem is people feed them only 1 option and they never realize there are others. I would be willing to bet that majority of people who have never used a mac and only use their pc to surf the web and send emails (and minor office apps) would pick up using the mac quicker than it took them to learn how to do things on a pc.

[Shib]

Who cares about your parents, end users dont like change thats a fact.

And if you want to moan about FUD: "frying the onboard NIC and soundcard after forgetting some damn wire or another"

lol

stop trying to typecast end users and completely clueless retards. you're talking about humans here. They'll figure it out as long as it contains logic and reason. clicking next 8 times to install anything, doesn't not posses either.

you want some examples of reason? take a look at the mac GUI design guidebook. every aspect of the OS has a philosophy including phsycology and ergonomics, as well as speed. Also, it forces other applications to use that logic, something windows lacks... nothing like installing invision on windows... some fuckin midi's playing, shit's all over the place, an upteen amount of useless options... and bam it's installed? great success :-/

or, take a look at the ATI driver install... wow. I'll take my drag n drop installs thanks. unistalls too btw.

[Mutt]

i would agree somewhat, but the problem is people feed them only 1 option and they never realize there are others. I would be willing to bet that majority of people who have never used a mac and only use their pc to surf the web and send emails (and minor office apps) would pick up using the mac quicker than it took them to learn how to do things on a pc.I would agree, but temper that with the fact that OS' are much more intuitive and end users are more savvy than they were when they first learned windows.

[Aradorn]

I would agree, but temper that with the fact that OS' are much more intuitive and end users are more savvy than they were when they first learned windows.

nothing has changed about windows since 95. The layout is the same and the design is the same. The same goes with OSX.

So what about a person who has NEVER used a mac and NEVER used windows. What would the outcome be?

[Mutt]

linux

[Shib]

Ever notice how most Scientists users are skinny? It's because of all the calories they burn because they can't shut the fuck up about how great their science is. What is it about science that makes its users unable to shut their mouths? Everywhere I go, there's another asshole with logic preaching about how much better logic are than the Bible. They regurgitate lines directly from scientfic journals, like "peer reviewed." I have the following rebuttals to this argument:

1. If everything in science makes sense, then why does Chewbacca want to live on Endor, assholes?
2. Fuck you.

I don't know why scientists users get so defensive when you call them idiots. I mean, science is a theory that has built its entire user base around the fact that its things need to be proven to be true. Hell, most scientists can't even talk without using their hands, which ranks their intelligence somewhere between a simian and hog shit.

Stupid user base aside, I will never belive evolution. It's not so much that I'm a Christ loyalist. I'm not. Most science journals feature guys with long hair, chicks roller skating, and guys wearing fedoras. I have dandruff, and I buy most of my jeans from a grocery store.

After the recent conference, science fans were elated. One person was quoted as saying "I've had a brain now for a total of 35 days, and I'm really excited to be part of the community." Part of the community? It's a philosophy, not a social movement, asshole! I feel like science is not just selling theories, they're selling a way of life, and I'm not ready to be that heavily invested in a theory.

[Aradorn]

linux

heh lucky for us osx is essentially a pretty nix client =)

[Ablate]

Most end users ARE retards.

I work with people who don't know how to reset "the computer thingie". Not just one, many, and I'd wager they're a fair cross section of the typical public, the ones that aren't technically inclined.

[Shib]

Most end users ARE retards.

I work with people who don't know how to reset "the computer thingie". Not just one, many, and I'd wager they're a fair cross section of the typical public, the ones that aren't technically inclined.

and I bet you don't know the first thing about thier job either.

[Drekor]

Here's the reason mac and pc users will never get along. it's the same reason scientists and christians won't get along... ONE SIDE HAS COME TO A TRUTH THE OTHER SIDE WILL NOT ACCEPT FOR NO REASON.
I repeat my question, what programs does a home user need that windows does not run?

[Ablate]

and I bet you don't know the first thing about thier job either.

That's a bet you'd lose.

[Harrison]

Ever notice how most Scientists users are skinny? It's because of all the calories they burn because they can't shut the fuck up about how great their science is. What is it about science that makes its users unable to shut their mouths? Everywhere I go, there's another asshole with logic preaching about how much better logic are than the Bible. They regurgitate lines directly from scientfic journals, like "peer reviewed." I have the following rebuttals to this argument:

1. If everything in science makes sense, then why does Chewbacca want to live on Endor, assholes?
2. Fuck you.

I don't know why scientists users get so defensive when you call them idiots. I mean, science is a theory that has built its entire user base around the fact that its things need to be proven to be true. Hell, most scientists can't even talk without using their hands, which ranks their intelligence somewhere between a simian and hog shit.

Stupid user base aside, I will never belive evolution. It's not so much that I'm a Christ loyalist. I'm not. Most science journals feature guys with long hair, chicks roller skating, and guys wearing fedoras. I have dandruff, and I buy most of my jeans from a grocery store.

After the recent conference, science fans were elated. One person was quoted as saying "I've had a brain now for a total of 35 days, and I'm really excited to be part of the community." Part of the community? It's a philosophy, not a social movement, asshole! I feel like science is not just selling theories, they're selling a way of life, and I'm not ready to be that heavily invested in a theory.
I loved this post.

[Shib]

I repeat my question, what programs does a home user need that windows does not run?

name one that mac does not run.

here's the problem with your question, I'll say iPhoto, you'll say that there's some third party camera company's photo sorting app that kinda sorta does a similar thing, when you combine it with the Gimp. Then I'll say garageband, but then you'll say that no home users can play music so that doesn't matter. Then I'll say iMovie, and you'll say that people don't take video of anything, so I'll say iChat, but then you'll point out that no one uses video chat at that quality level. Hmm, well how about spotlight then? I suppose people don't search their desktops for files though, and besides, google desktop search does that right? I'd say Safari, but you'd point out that IE is just fine and dandy for normal use. Well gee, I guess nothing then, except if you want to use your computer in a secure and efficient way without using third party apps, and maybe yah know, you want to do something more than deal with spreadsheets... oh wait, windows can't open a spreadsheet by default.

you're right, 3rd party apps rock my world... here's the thing though, i could ask you the same question, what can windows run that macs can't (for the home user) and you'll prolly say some obscure directx game, which I'll say, home users are not gamers, then you'll have nothing left. That, and mac will be able to run directx games in 10.5. Hmm, I suppose the only thing that windows can run that macs can't are... well... viruses. you got me.

[Shib]

do this with a pc -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fgd1QmjCzEA

sound's done in garageband and the movie in iMovie... go figure, doing something fun on a computer... CRAZY TALK

[Ablate]

I mean really, when you buy a mac what are you buying that's so different now? They use the same RAM, the same CPU, the same Video Cards, the same Sound Cards, the Same Mice, keyboards, monitors, etc. Extra bucks for the privilege of running Mac OS and the sweet brand identity?

[Harrison]

If you compare a mac to a brand of comparable quality you aren't paying more if your going to white box it and cut corners here and there you will pay more for the mac . I use a mac because it runs an os that doesn't suck.

[Shib]

Extra bucks for the privilege of running Mac OS


1. Macs are cheaper
2. Even if they wern't, the OS is easy worth 2x as much as they charge for Windows (but it's not, because windows is way overpriced)... here's what windows is worth today, at futureshop, in CND:

Windows Vista Ultimate
The best edition of Windows Vista with the power, security, and mobility features you need for... More Info
Price: $499.99

and mac (USD, futureshop had a family pack for the same price though, in CND, this is from amazon):

Apple Mac OS X Tiger 10.4.6 (Mac DVD)
List Price: $129.00
Price: $121.99

[Shib]

and actually, the next douche hat who has some bullshit to spread about pc's being cheaper, go look up some data first.

[Shib]

The Apple store is currently updating.. look for a price drop today.

[Shib]

here's your comparison:

DELL:

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T7600G (2.33GHz, 4MB L2 Cache, 667 MHz FSB) edit
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista™ Ultimate edit
LCD DISPLAY 17 inch UltraSharp™ Wide Screen UXGA Display with TrueLife™ edit
MEMORY 2GB DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHZ, 2 DIMM edit
HARD DRIVE 160GB 5400 RPM SATA Hard Drive edit
OPTICAL DRIVE 8X CD/DVD Burner (DVD+/-RW) with double-layer DVD+R write capability edit

$3,368

APPLE:

* 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
* 2GB 667 DDR2 - 2x1GB SO-DIMMs
* 160GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
* SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
* MacBook Pro 17-inch Widescreen Display
* Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English

$3,099.00

[Mutt]

and actually, the next douche hat who has some bullshit to spread about pc's being cheaper, go look up some data first.lol: http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/dimen_e520?c=ca&cs=cadhs1&l=en&s=dhs
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/6404002/wo/lA4jnVJVCjTo2tvuJx91dunWJTm/4.?p=0

In summary: MAC

2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x512
160GB Serial ATA drive
SuperDrive 8X (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Keyboard & Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X - U.S. English
ATI Radeon X1600 128MB SDRAM
17-inch widescreen LCD
Total:
1199.00

PC:
Intel® Core™ 2 E6320 Duo Processor(4MB L2 cache,1.86GHz,1066FSB), english
Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium, english
2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
22 inch E228WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
320GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16x DVD+/-RW Drive
1 Year Next Business Day Onsite/In Home Service and Tech Support
Free Upgrade to 256MB NVIDIA GeForce 7300LE with Turbo Cache

Total:
1199.00

[Shib]

try to match the specs where you can there mutt... upgrade that processor and downgrade the ram, and put in a DL burner.

The point was to match specs, that's not what you've done, you've matched price, and some parts are better, and some are worse. processors are expensive though.

[Shib]

oh, and you get the best version of os x with a mac, let's compare the best version of windows vista as well

[Cinnabar]

stop trying to typecast end users and completely clueless retards. you're talking about humans here. They'll figure it out as long as it contains logic and reason. clicking next 8 times to install anything, doesn't not posses either.


lol, you're such a sensitive and standup guy, looking out for the public like that. Now we'll step back into reality and accept the simple fact that most computer end users are fairly helpless when it comes to anything other than navigating through a few programs.

Having worked at Best Buy for several years, selling computers to the end user and troubleshooting their problems, I know this to be true.

[Mutt]

its matched on price and a $40 diff in procs is much less than a doubling of the HD space, doubling of ram, and going from a 17 inch to a 22 inch.
Gimme a sec Ill play this game though.

[Ablate]

Sigh

"iMac 20 inch 2.16 ghz"

# 2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
# 2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
# 500GB Serial ATA Drive
# ATI Radeon X1600/128MB VRAM
# SuperDrive 8X (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
# Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X (US English)
# 20-inch widescreen LCD
# AirPort Extreme
# Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR

2149.00 CDN



"Ablate's 20 inch 2.16ghz homebuilt"

# Core 2 Duo E6420
# 2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
# 500GB Serial ATA Drive
# RADEON X1650 256MB PCI-E GDDR2
# LITEON 16X16 DVDRW, BLACK, SATA
# Microsoft Basic Keyboard/Mouse Combo
# Microsoft Windows XP SP2 Professional
# 20" Widescreen LCD (Viewsonic VG2030M)
# 802.11g Card
# Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
# Antec SLK3800b case +400W PSU
# Intel LGA775 Motherboard

1250.00 CDN
1330.00 CDN (Assembled & Preloaded)
1345.00 CDN (Assembled, Preloaded & with Vista Ultimate)

PS - I bolded the stuff that's better in the machine I built
PPS - With the 550.00 savings you could even buy the high end DX10 card to work with Vista Ultimate.
PPPS - Oops I thought the "Airport Extreme" meant it came with the WAP, it doesn't, just comes with WiFi. Prices Adjusted.
PPPPS - Mutt's and My burners are both DL burners, as are pretty much any 16x DVDRW out there today.

[Nadric]

After reading that Maddox article I can't stop laughing at this thread.

Nail. Head.

[Mutt]

DELL - $1,418
PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ 2 E6420 Duo Processor(4MB L2 cache,2.13GHZ,1066FSB
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows Vista™ Ultimate
MONITOR 20 inch E207WFP Widescreen Digital Flat Panel
MEMORY 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz- 2DIMMs
HARD DRIVE 500GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
OPTICAL DRIVE 16x DVD+/-RW DL Drive
VIDEO CARD 256MB ATI Radeon X1300 Pro
SOUND Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio
KEYBOARD & MOUSE Dell USB Keyboard and Dell 2-button Scroll Mouse
FLOPPY & MEDIA READER No Floppy Drive Included
MODEM 56K PCI Data Fax Modem


MAC - $1,923.00
2.16GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB
500GB Serial ATA Drive
ATI Radeon X1600/128MB VRAM
SuperDrive 8X (DVD+R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Apple USB Modem
Apple Keyboard & Mighty Mouse + Mac OS X (US English)
Accessory kit
20-inch widescreen LCD

There you go. Notice that the vid cards arent the exact same, but both being sub $100 cards, who gives a crap. Ones faster, ones got more ram, its basically a wash and a pwnt. This would be easier to match but the mac store has shit for customization options.

[Shib]

do not go find some parts and throw them together yourself with a case, that's not the argument, peiced computers will always be cheaper

...

[Shib]

@ mutt, not sure why you have a USB modem and an accesory kit included in the mac one there... but even if you do, that puts the difference at $505, which is... 2x the price of the windows os... hmm

[Ablate]

Meh, cheaper is cheaper, you lose, twice.

[Mutt]

@ mutt, not sure why you have a USB modem and an accesory kit included in the mac one there... but even if you do, that puts the difference at $505, which is... 2x the price of the windows os... hmmYou wanted em matched as close as can be. The dell came with a 56k. The macs had to be an addon for $49 bucks. The Dell includes vista ultimate. With that 500 bucks you can buy a hot shit video card and even play games on your PC instead of making an emo video on your mac about how video games are for lamers.

As for the accessory kit, not sure it got on the list as if you go here:
http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/6404002/wo/lA4jnVJVCjTo2tvuJx91dunWJTm/38.?p=0
Its not on there anymore.

[Blay]

Allow me to inject my unfounded generalization to this topic.

Mac users are almost violent in their cult-like defense of their uber-OS.

Also, this quote made me laugh.

Macs are glorified Fisher-Price activity centres for adults; computers for scaredy cats too nervous to learn how proper computers work; computers for people who earnestly believe in feng shui.

[Shib]

Meh, cheaper is cheaper, you lose, twice.


mmm hmm. except for that other one, but you can ignore that if it makes you feel better.

bottom line:

1) mac hardware is quality shit. I've never had any issues with it, nor has anyone I've known. The few cases I've heard of (on the internets), the people have had very prompt replacements... no biggie.

2) mac hardware is worth it. Hello, welcome to it works... and will work for a long time. I know lots of people and businesses that still use G3's with no problems at all, with the latest software and it runs great still. They could of added more RAM or something, but I can't be certain about that. How many people do you know that are happily running Vista on computers from 2000 (what year did the G3's come out? Quite a while ago...)?

3) mac os x is worth a lot more than they charge, especially when you consider iLife being bundled into your computer. iLife alone is worth $90 (a great bargain, seriously... you could maybe compare garageband to sony sound forge, which retails at $299 don't believe me? (http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/products/soundforgefamily.asp), but garageband still kicks it's ass in usuability and features).

4) mac os x is worth a lot more than they charge. use it for one day. just one day. you will understand what this is all about after that, and I mean as your primary workstation. You will not understand points 3, 4, and 6 until you do.

5) mac apps are better. partially because of better hardware as well, but apps run faster, look better and are easier to use than any other platform.

6) mac os x is worth a lot more than they charge. UNIX isn't cheap to buy, and in fact, it's very difficult to get your hands on a copy nowadays. there's not that many people selling UNIX licences.

Mac people know this, linux people know this, and believe it or not, Microsoft knows this. There is a reason why they bought into Novell, Xandros and... someone refresh my memory on the third distro. Microsoft's next OS will be *nix based. It's fairly clear to see this, they are caught in the middle of a disruptive market shift (wiki link for that) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disruptive_technology), and they're trying to slowly (because that's how big business works) move out of they're DOS/OS2 kernel and into a linux kernel, while maintaining the top market position. What I think is how people will swear up and down that a 15 year old kernel with no major improvements (lol "next generation" IP stack? it's called ipv6 and has been around for a loooong time) is so awesome because LOL IT PLAYZ ALL OF TEH GAMEZ!!!!1one. The fact is, and Microsoft knows this, it's easy to either a) port directx to linux or b) write all games in opengl. The day will come, it's coming soon... just poke around Microsoft's shareholders documents (financial section) and into their Linux development stuff, it's pretty easy to see.

Also, I'm pretty sure this discussion is over. It's like trying to sell a fuel efficient hybrid to a bunch of oil tycoons. You guys are so wrapped up in yer ZOMFG GAMEZ!1 that you don't notice market trends, and are close-minded to anything that may take away a day or two of sweet, sweet gaming time.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind to game either, that's why I bought a Wii, and my flatmate has a PS3, they're both nice, and the games are better and more fun than any PC game could ever be.

EOF

[Mijin]

Allow me to inject my unfounded generalization to this topic.

Mac users are almost violent in their cult-like defense of their uber-OS.

Also, this quote made me laugh.

Ahoy, where da fuck ye been lad?

Haven't seen you since you won a Blinkstrike and stopped playing
:banghead:

[Shib]

Oh, and apparently windows user's like mac software too, safari was just released on windows.

[Shib]

and they released a bunch more info on 10.5

http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

i'm done talking about mac vs windows... I'll give you guys 5 years to catch up to this release.

[Cinnabar]

http://obviousdiversion.com/images/cult.jpg

[Mutt]

lol just because you think Mac's are the uber shit doesnt mean PC's dont work fine themselves. If you like it better good for you, but dont act like its the be all and end all to computers. Infact market share suggests quite the contrary, but granted much of that is due to getting in early and end users familiarity with the OS.

Biggest knock on Macs is that its more expensive in a corporate environment, and there is no performance gains in going to a Mac. As such PC's have a lock and will continue to hold that lock until there is an alternative that makes sense. Couple that with the fact that those simple end users who just surf and email use Windows at work, chances are they will use windows at home.

How many of the baby boomers didnt bother with a computer at home until they had to get one for work and learn it?

OSX does have an opportunity to expand on market share here because Vista is in a precarious position. However alot of that weakness is mitigated by the fact that enterprises generally have long cycles of OS adoption. Hell my company just bought a couple major businesses that still run win98 as their OS (even a few win 95 machines).
If a company is on XP, they will likely skip Vista all together as 1) The current OS works fine, and 2) There isnt much to be gained by the switched.
So by the time businesses get around to a roll out project for vista, vista will likely be in better shape by then. I think everyone can agree that by and large Vista isnt the way to go over XP right now, with of course a few exceptions.

[Nadric]

http://obviousdiversion.com/images/cult.jpg
Lewl!

[Cinnabar]

I think it's fair to say that the majority of the computer consumer market is the average casual user that only wants to browse the web, download music, etc. This group tends to lean towards purchasing low-mid end systems and want to spend as little as possible. Macs don't come close to the pricing of low end pc bundles that fly off the shelves every weekend at retail stores during their constant sales. Until that happens, it doesn't matter how much better or worst a Mac is as it'll still be a niche market.

[Ablate]

My PC "just works" too.

I liked Ubuntu better than MacOS, so if I could even run MacOS, i'd still likely run ubuntu instead. It's worth WAY more than they charge for it too.

[Drekor]

name one that mac does not run.
There's the thing your mac can run pretty much anything to, and since home users need nothing from a mac it comes down to performance and price.

I don't have issues with my PC breaking down and very very rarely have had faulty parts, all of which have been quickly exchanged for ones that work.

also

...while maintaining the top market position
Ever wonder why windows is on top? Because darkfall is currently only being made for windows :). Keep buying macs to run windows on, I'm sure it'll work out for you.

[Shib]

I'd venture a guess to say that there's more people using linux than there are people who have "gaming computers", or, who will be playing darkfall.

games are an afterthought for computers, kinda like how networking is an afterthought for PCs.

100th post!

[Shib]

102nd post!

[Shib]

PCS ARE GAY IF YOU LIKE WINDOWS THEN YOU MUST LIKE SUCKING DICK LOLZ0RS

YUO SUCKZ NEWBS

[Shib]

PCS ARE GAY IF YOU LIKE WINDOWS THEN YOU MUST LIKE SUCKING DICK LOLZ0RS

YUO SUCKZ NEWBS


LOL WUT NO WAI MACS SUCKZ IF YOU LIKE MACS THEN YUO LIZKEZ TEH D1CKZ IN YER A$$ LOLOLZORS FAG




Shibby out!

[Mutt]

And with that I think Shib makes the biggest point about Mac users vs PC users

[Cinnabar]

Yep. Point taken.

[Miach]

All of you people are so gullible...like lemmings!

The only reason Drekor added "and Mac's suck" to the thread title was to create controvery so he could get a long thread to score more points to upgrade his RP weapons.

Way to not see the big picture. ;)

[Mijin]

Meh, whatevah...It's good to have something to look at on the forums besides week old post about crafting.

How does the battle rpg dood thing work?

[Mutt]

Ah Miach! We have been fooled! Lynch Drek imo

[Drekor]

All of you people are so gullible...like lemmings!

The only reason Drekor added "and Mac's suck" to the thread title was to create controvery so he could get a long thread to score more points to upgrade his RP weapons.

Way to not see the big picture. ;)

I deny everything! :smile_ok:

[Cydus]

that maddox article was hilarious and why i have such a deep hatred of all things mac dawned on me upon perusing it.

Mac users are like the 9/11 conspiracy theorists. There is a hulking behemoth of truth and facts to support a truth, yet a select few feel the need to fight "the man" and reveal the "real truth" to us all.

It's not to say there isn't a niche market for Mac users, I'm sure theyre good for some people, but the level of argument I always see from them is quite hilarious, I find it fun to antagonize them, does this make me a bad person? Probably, but I'll continue regardless.

[Aradorn]

There's the thing your mac can run pretty much anything to, and since home users need nothing from a mac it comes down to performance and price.

I don't have issues with my PC breaking down and very very rarely have had faulty parts, all of which have been quickly exchanged for ones that work.


theres a big difference between us (people reading this forum) and the average computer user. we know how to buy quality hardware and take care of our computers. We know how to browse the web and what to download and what not to download. The chances of us getting a virus is slim to none. HOWEVER, venture into the average computer users home and run an AVG scan and i bet it wouldnt take 30 seconds to find a virus.

oh and the argument about games is stupid now considering I can run any windows program using parallels

http://parallelsvirtualization.blogspot.com/

watch the videos bout midway down the page...

giving a typical home user a pc is like handing a child a gun, eventually its going to go off and when it does its usually very bad. with a mac you dont have to worry about them screwing something up because there really isnt anything to screw up.