The terrorists should hit these people first

[Silver]

Berkeley to Marines: You're 'not welcome in our city'

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/07/berkeley.protests/index.html

[Drekor]

wow.

[Konrad]

You know...the US Military needs a new life-scale MOUT training center; Berkley would be an ideal location I think. 1/1 Marines could get the first shot.

[Konrad]

It adds, "Military recruiters are salespeople known to lie to and seduce minors and young adults into contracting themselves into military service with false promises regarding jobs, job training, education and other benefits."

That is true though...recruiters are lying sacks of shit.

[Diraker]

One giant sign said, "No Military Predators in Our Town." Another message on a pink placard read, "Join the Marines. Travel to Exotic Lands. Meet Exciting and Unusual People -- And Kill Them."

Straight from one of my favorite movies.

Anyway I value freedom of speech and I think to suggest these people need to be shot or killed is pretty repulsive. But with that said I value the military and I think those Code Pink people are weird.

[Konrad]

I'm not saying they should be shot or that the shouldn't protest. I'm saying that the actions of the city council is treasonous, and we should take their precious city and use it to train our soldiers in urban warfare.

Edit: I've been there a few times and it is a shit hole of a town...wouldn't take long to give it the "feel" of Baghdad.

[Diraker]

That CNN link didn't provide much info other than quoting people on the street but I found a slightly better article that talked a bit more about the city council.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/01/BA8PUQ8VK.DTL

I liked what this guy had to say.

Marine Corps officials did not return calls for comment.

However, ex-Marine Staff Sgt. Bill Hamilton showed up on his own to say he wholeheartedly supports the rights of the protesters to speak , but doesn't like their effort to silence the Marine Corps' voice in Berkeley.

"They don't seem to realize that this recruiting office is only for recruiting potential officers with college degrees, not kids right out of high school," said Hamilton, who drove in from Pleasanton to become the only on-scene counterpoint to the demonstration. "Marines are willing to die so these people can have their say, but I wish they understood the situation better."

[Nadric]

How is it that an entire town can be this stupid?

[Cinnabar]

Protesting is one thing but a city council vote on something like this is disgusting.

[Drekor]

That is true though...recruiters are lying sacks of shit.
Anyone trying to sign people up for something are typically considered "lying sacks of shit". It's more than fault of the person not realizing what was actually said to them rather then the salesmen. I'm not overly fond of the idea that it's ok to blame someone else for your own ignorance.

[Gnioss]

Anyone trying to sign people up for something are typically considered "lying sacks of shit". It's more than fault of the person not realizing what was actually said to them rather then the salesmen. I'm not overly fond of the idea that it's ok to blame someone else for your own ignorance.

nope, its pretty much par for the course for recruiters to actually lie. Everyone thinks they are going in as RAMBO SPECIAL OPS INTELLIGENCE DIVISION EXPLOSIVES MASTER WITH A COOL EYEPATCH but there's a lot more job openings for bulkhead scrubber class 2. It's just how the system works.

[Shib]

The bill's co-sponsor, Sen. Jim DeMint, R-South Carolina, said in a written statement, "Berkeley needs to learn that their actions have consequences."

don't fucking disagree with the national government. that's bullshit, if as a town they collectively came to the conclusion that the war is a fucked up waste of lives and they don't want to support it, why should they have to? it's not like the states are being invaded or even have a just cause to fight, or a formidable enemy. they have a war based on lies and a liberal college town (hey makes sense, open minded intellegent people) can see through them. good for berkley.

[Nadric]

don't fucking disagree with the national government. that's bullshit, if as a town they collectively came to the conclusion that the war is a fucked up waste of lives and they don't want to support it, why should they have to? it's not like the states are being invaded or even have a just cause to fight, or a formidable enemy. they have a war based on lies and a liberal college town (hey makes sense, open minded intellegent people) can see through them. good for berkley.You don't have a fucking clue, do you?

[Cinnabar]

don't fucking disagree with the national government. that's bullshit, if as a town they collectively came to the conclusion that the war is a fucked up waste of lives and they don't want to support it, why should they have to? it's not like the states are being invaded or even have a just cause to fight, or a formidable enemy. they have a war based on lies and a liberal college town (hey makes sense, open minded intellegent people) can see through them. good for berkley.

lol, riiiiiiiight. :stfu:

[Drekor]

I think the saying "If you don't stand behind the army feel free to stand in front of it" goes nicely in this situation. It's fine and great if they don't support the war, they can make arguments directly related to that but singling out the marines is epic failure.

[Koltas]

don't fucking disagree with the national government. that's bullshit, if as a town they collectively came to the conclusion that the war is a fucked up waste of lives and they don't want to support it, why should they have to? it's not like the states are being invaded or even have a just cause to fight, or a formidable enemy. they have a war based on lies and a liberal college town (hey makes sense, open minded intellegent people) can see through them. good for berkley.
lol

[Ablate]

They either got big balls, or they're high as fuck.

[Arnie]

nope, its pretty much par for the course for recruiters to actually lie. Everyone thinks they are going in as RAMBO SPECIAL OPS INTELLIGENCE DIVISION EXPLOSIVES MASTER WITH A COOL EYEPATCH but there's a lot more job openings for bulkhead scrubber class 2. It's just how the system works.


Not really no. The way jobs get assigned is usually one of two ways. Guarenteed Military Occupational Speciality and/or open general contract. If someone is dumb enough to join without a guasrenteed job then they deserve to be professional shit burners.

I was assigned to the 8th Marine Corps Recruiting Division, New Orleans for a year.

You explain to adults (not kids. You are 18 you are grown folk) certain programs and what they entail and the requirements, if in the future they can't hack that then so-sorry.

As for Berkeley. Nothing new there. That's why I would never live in Berkeley.

And that is nowhere near as stupid as convicting an army sniper recently to 10 years for killing an Iraqi civilian.

The whole thing is fucking stoopid.

[Mutt]

And that is nowhere near as stupid as convicting an army sniper recently to 10 years for killing an Iraqi civilian.Depends on the manner in which that occurs, but I presume this occured during normal military operations. Then, while regretable, it does happen during the course of an occupation.

[Arnie]

It refers to the Army sniper who killed the unarmed civilian that discovered his hiding position. His position is that he got spooked and blasted before thinking. If he would have accidently shot another solider it would be considered an accidental discharge and no charges. The problem is he then tried to plant a weapon on the dead body to cover himself.

All snitched out by some sackless piece of shit.

He got ten years.....Ten fucking years for fighting a war. It makes me sick to my stomach.

[Mutt]

Trying to cover it up is what got him in trouble. 10 years might be excessive, but covering up something like that only puts him in a bad light. Being spooked while engaged your instinct is to fire. That is understandable, although tragic. Planting a weapon? No good can come of that not only for the soldier himself, but also relationships with the locals. Not a smart move at all for an occupation force that needs the will of the people on its side.

[Silver]

I am very much in favor of pulling out of this "war" now. We are simply spending way too much money and in the end it will not make one bit of difference.

[Cydus]

Although I think its silly and stupid to deny military recruiters into a city, I think it's also silly and stupid to condemn Americans who are against the decisions the gov't made concerning our foreign policy, particularly in the Iraq/Afghanistan situation.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the Berkleyite liberals aren't against the marines as human beings, they just don't agree with how marines/other military are being used to "defend" our country. I can respect to some extent at least having the balls to stand up and say we don't agree with this policy, at least they aren't apathetic about the situation.

[Konrad]

Cydus and others,

I think that the outrage comes not from the fact that people are protesting, but from the fact that a city council took official government action against the Marine Corp recruiting station. People can voice their dissent and organize and protest all they want...that is their right. It is a completely different matter when an elected body in its official capacity takes explicit action against the United States military and I do believe it is treason.

[Ablate]

explicit action of sending a note: we dun like you, plz leave kthx.

[Konrad]

Explicit action: they are re-zoning military recruiting the same way they do porn shops.

[Diraker]

All the articles I find are big on emotion but small on facts.

I just don't get how the same "I want small government" crowd (and I'm speaking in general, like for instance that senator guy, not to anyone in particular) is in favor of the federal government busting up what the local government wanted.

[Konrad]

For most "small government" types, myself included, national defense is one of the few responsibilities of the federal government. To participate in actions that would hurt our military's effectiveness in a time of war is treasonous.

[Diraker]

If "participating in actions the hurt military effectiveness" is the issue then (and I don't assume to know your positions) how is it that at least some of the "small government" types still favor Bush? We are mired in Iraq because of bad leadership. The troops do the best they can despite Bush and crew. For example Cheney still says that if he could go back that he'd do everything the same. Rumsfield before leaving said things were going "swimmingly" in Iraq. IMO these people are incompetent fools. They didn't listen to the military planners who had some sort of decent plan for Iraq, instead they pretended that it would be flowers and candy. They've done more to hurt our military than the 8 people on the Berkeley city council. And again, I am not anti-war or anti-military but I am anti-bad leadership and anti-incompetence.

[Konrad]

There is a difference between ineffective planning and knowledgable action. I agree that there have been real problems in the execution of occupation and pacification of Iraq. However, as seen with "the surge" and the change in tactics, field manuals, etc that have been made to change the culture of the military to be more effective in Iraq and other similar situations, there has been real effort to achieve victory.

[Spiker]

This is slightly off-topic but did anybody see 'Extreme Makeover Home Edition' last night? Daniel Gilyeat, is a marine who lost his leg, and almost died in Iraq on July 3rd. He came back and his overwhelmed wife divorced him one-year later to the day from losing his leg. He was left raising 4 kids alone, in a tiny house.

If you saw the episode and it brought a tear to my eye. Mourning will be turned to joy.

[Konrad]

God damned Jodies.